Upgrading to Coach - Question on GCWR

You'll have to do the math,

towing capacity is the LESSER of:

The hitch rating (in most cases a DP is about 10k)

OR

subtract the fully loaded weight (passengers and cargo) of the coach from its rated GCWR (gross combined weight rating). Then weigh the dinghy (with full fuel) and see if that is less than the amount you just calculated. If you are using a dolly to tow, weigh the dinghy and the dolly together.

In this case if you don't know the weight of the loaded MH, you'll have to use GVWR and guess at what it's weight loaded would be.

My hunch is that in a DP with the models you mentioned you'll have plenty of towing capacity for your toad. This is usually more of a close call on gassers. I've seen a few gassers that despite having a 5k hitch can't town anywhere near that. Dp's usually don't have that issue.

TT_Tim wrote:
I'm thinking of moving up to a coach from our 5th wheel. After researching, I've compiled the following.

2013-2017 Diesel Pusher
33-39' length
Must Haves:
OCCC 3500 lbs. with additional
tow capacity 6000 lbs.

Nice Haves:
King Bed
Fireplace
Washer/Dryer

Models interested in:
Tiffin Allegro Red 37PA
Thor Tuscany 36MQ
Holiday Rambler Endeavor 38K

The issue I am having is that most manufactures sites do not show the OCCC, dry or curb weight. Only the GVWR and GCWR. I realize it varies depending on options, but is there another way to determine the capabilities? It appears the Allison 2500 transmission limits GCWR to 33000 lbs. Any other model suggestions similar to the three I listed?

Thanks

You'll be wanting to go look at them anyway and all this is posted in a closet somewhere.
As for CCC, even though more than adequate, keep in mind that it might not be distributed evenly over both the front and rear axles and they don't tell you that, so you still might have to be careful loading.

If your stuck on ratings then the Red will have to be the 360hp/800tq model as it has the 3000 series Allison. I towed appox 6k behind my Red 38QRA with 340/660 and there were a few hills that i wanted more power. The hitch is actually a 10k hitch that Tiffin puts a 5k sticker over the 10k sticker to cya. We now have a Phaeton as i wanted the power as well as we like the floorplan better that we have now. Its a 36GH.

If you like Tiffins, the 2017 models now have the larger engine and transmission. Tow rating is now 10,000 pounds. The 2500MH Allison was the reason for the 5,000 lb tow rating.

The CCC will vary by coach is it is based on the weight as built, the GVWR of the chassis and certain estimates - 1) full water tank; 2) full propane tank; 3) full fuel tank; and 4) 4 passengers @ 150 lbs ea. What is left is CCC. You need more CCC - carry less water, fewer passengers, etc. You can easily pick up 1000 lbs of capacity if you need it.

Tiffin posts all this information in the bedroom closet if you are looking at coaches. The other manufacturers you mentioned will post them someplace in the coach so just look.

TT_Tim wrote:
I'm thinking of moving up to a coach from our 5th wheel. After researching, I've compiled the following.

2013-2017 Diesel Pusher
33-39' length
Must Haves:
OCCC 3500 lbs. with additional
tow capacity 6000 lbs.

Nice Haves:
King Bed
Fireplace
Washer/Dryer

Models interested in:
Tiffin Allegro Red 37PA
Thor Tuscany 36MQ
Holiday Rambler Endeavor 38K

The issue I am having is that most manufactures sites do not show the OCCC, dry or curb weight. Only the GVWR and GCWR. I realize it varies depending on options, but is there another way to determine the capabilities? It appears the Allison 2500 transmission limits GCWR to 33000 lbs. Any other model suggestions similar to the three I listed?

Thanks

try calling the mfg. if you give them the VIN the mfg. can tell you all sorts of useful things. but why not make weighing the MH a pre-sales requirement? when we were shopping in 2000 and 2015 for a new coach we insisted on weighing the coach before purchase and by doing so we found two truths:

- don't believe the sales critter or the weight sheet taped to the closet wall unless that weight sheet is specifically for that particular MH and not just the model. be sure to ask if the dealer added anything to the MH after delivery and if the weight sheet in the closet reflects that addition. a call to the MFG with the VIN to verify would be on my list of things to do.

- separate axle weights are the key. it is possible for one axle, usually the rear, to be overweight and yet still show total weight to be less than or equal to the GVWR. we know this from personal experience.

the RV industry, IMO, has done all of us a disservice by creating too many weight ratings. all you really need to know is empty weight per axle (if new, how it came off the factory floor; or if used, what it weighs with no personal items and empty tanks); wet weight per axle (empty other than full fuel, fresh water and LP tanks); axle payload (difference of the GAWR and wet weight on each axle). payload is how much weight owner can add to each axle in food, clothing, supplies, pets, people and other stuff.

does this present challenges for the average buyer? likely, but certified scales are usually not hard to find and wet weights can be calculated using simple math. if you can't find a scale or the seller refuses to let you weigh the coach either find another seller or call the MFG with the VIN and have them certify what the axle weights were when that coach left the factory.

when were shopping in 2015 we made weighing the coach a pre-sales requirement. the seller agreed so we weighed the coach empty and calculated the wet weight. the axle payloads were very good so after the purchase I filled all the tanks and returned to the same scale. my wet weight calculations were slightly different than the actual wet weight but it was a difference without a distinction. we ended up with about 2K pounds on the front axle and 2.4K on the rear axle.

the last step is to verify that your axle weights are equal to or less than the GAWR for each axle once the coach is loaded for travel (including people and pets).

to tow 6000-lbs your coach will need...:

- each axle to weigh less than or equal to its respective GAWR when fully loaded for travel including people and pets;

- to have a hitch rated to tow at least 6000-lbs, usually a Class IV hitch. since you're looking for a DP you may find one that meets this requirement. many, maybe most, motorhomes in the length you're looking may have a Class III hitch (5000-lbs). you may be able to swap out hitches but there may be other modifications you'll need to make. consult a professional frame and chassis expert about this. hint...the RV salesman is likely not a professional frame and chassis expert.

- have a towbar rated to tow at least 6000-lbs

by the way, tow ratings can be misleading. many will refer to the difference between GCWR and GVWR as the tow rating and that may be right..as a minimum. in general, the maximum amount of weight you can safely tow will be the lesser of the following:

- the GCWR (gross combination weight rating) of the MH minus the actual weight of the MH as it is loaded for travel (includes fuel, fresh water, food, clothing, people, pets, supplies, etc.)

- the weight rating of your tow bar

- the weight rating of your hitch

good luck.

Thanks for the replies. Great info. I am leaning toward the Tiffin more.