Winnebago Electric Motorhome on a F-53 chassis

wildmanbaker wrote:
Night driving. Even though they are LEDs they still use up quite a bit of electrical at night.

Ahh I see where your coming from. We don't find other systems use as much as people think. Here is a screenshot or our first generation leaf. It should give you an idea of what the various systems use. Lights are on and steering wheel heater on. You can see the climate control drawing considerably more power than the other systems. Keep in mind that the car is warm at this point. EV's heat up like right now. Within 5 minutes the current draw drops back to something like you see here although the first 5 minutes its usually north of 3 KW just for the HVAC. I don't think the heated seats were on for this as I usually don't have then selected on pre-warm. Temperature is as per the other pic. Minus eleven I think. Hope this gives some insight into real world numbers.

Night driving. Even though they are LEDs they still use up quite a bit of electrical at night.

wildmanbaker wrote:
Reisender, nice German.... and you got away with it. Any idea what the contribution is?
Max, where are you getting your numbers for charging stations in Europe. We have a son in Germany and he said their very few EVs in Germany, as they are expensive, and charging stations are very few and far between, and when they are used, they get a bill for more than a tank of gasoline, and they don't get anywhere the mileage the ICE do. He said it appears that the charging stations are going to be operated (controlled) much like the private solar power generation is. Now, hybrids are a different story, very sough after, for obvious reasons, range and lights at night. Europe may not be any better than the US Politically, but hey it is what it is.

I didn't follow the "lights at night" comment. What does that mean.

Cheers

I recall Tesla started a pilot program 3 or 4 years ago to test a 3 minute battery swap program, but I don't know what became of it. Now I see that China's 220 mile range NIO EV will have a 3-minute swap option as well. Obviously the swap takes some significant on-site automated technology, but I can't help thinking of all those Blue Rhino LP cylinder cages we see all over the place... :)

Reisender, nice German.... and you got away with it. Any idea what the contribution is?
Max, where are you getting your numbers for charging stations in Europe. We have a son in Germany and he said their very few EVs in Germany, as they are expensive, and charging stations are very few and far between, and when they are used, they get a bill for more than a tank of gasoline, and they don't get anywhere the mileage the ICE do. He said it appears that the charging stations are going to be operated (controlled) much like the private solar power generation is. Now, hybrids are a different story, very sough after, for obvious reasons, range and lights at night. Europe may not be any better than the US Politically, but hey it is what it is.

Chainwright wrote:

Reisender wrote:
There is a standard that all electric vehicles use for level 1 and 2 charging. It is J1772 standard and every electric vehicle in production today uses it. Some like Tesla use a physical adapter but the standard is all the same.

Level 3 is a different story but there are only three standards presently. Tesla (open to all manufacturers, CCS and Chademo.

The average North American EV uses less than 10 KWH per day. Although some grid upgrading will be required this is not expected to be a big challenge by most utilities. Personally our household is close to about 6 KWH per vehicle and we have two vehicles. We are probably below the average. An additional 20 amp 240 volt circuit per household is more than enough to fill the requirement of the average household. We do half of our charging from a 120 volt 12 amp circuit.

Chargers,adapters. In the grand scheme of things aren't those easy fixes? I mean in the computer world we've had soooo many adapter and port changes. Why can't a car come furnished with 2-4 adapters/ports/plugs? Just asking.

UK has over 16500 charging stations, France has 23000 public charging stations, Germany 13500, Italy 2000, Demmark 2060+, Netherlands 122000, and so on. If we are truly in the top 5 for technology and the "greatest" nation in the world, Then we too can do this. If they have the technology, then so do we. If it can work for them it can work here too. No one is saying this has to happen in the next 2-3 yrs, or all at once. Many Gas stations have room for 5-20 recharging stations. Get a good mix going. Gas pumps plus recharging stations. Conservatively, In 7-10 yrs we may see our first RV that can do 300-350. One of the members here, even sent a link about the Rivian EV Truck that was at the car show in 2018; but surprisingly no comments from the nay sayers.
Reisender thanks for looking at the glass half full. Alles gute auf die naechste reise.

:). Das stimmt. :).

Tesla’s come with a J1772 adapter. The format for level 1 and 2 charging is the same but physical connection is different. Takes half a second to attach it.

Chademo adapters can be purchased for Tesla’s in North America. Model S and X are enabled for Chademo. Model 3 maybe enabled this year. Doesn’t work the other way though as a non Tesla can not charge at a Supercharger. It is open source and any manufacturer can put a Supercharger on their car. However they need to contribute to the system before they can actually connect. No manufacturer has done this yet. Time will tell.

Reisender wrote:
There is a standard that all electric vehicles use for level 1 and 2 charging. It is J1772 standard and every electric vehicle in production today uses it. Some like Tesla use a physical adapter but the standard is all the same.

Level 3 is a different story but there are only three standards presently. Tesla (open to all manufacturers, CCS and Chademo.

The average North American EV uses less than 10 KWH per day. Although some grid upgrading will be required this is not expected to be a big challenge by most utilities. Personally our household is close to about 6 KWH per vehicle and we have two vehicles. We are probably below the average. An additional 20 amp 240 volt circuit per household is more than enough to fill the requirement of the average household. We do half of our charging from a 120 volt 12 amp circuit.

Chargers,adapters. In the grand scheme of things aren't those easy fixes? I mean in the computer world we've had soooo many adapter and port changes. Why can't a car come furnished with 2-4 adapters/ports/plugs? Just asking.

UK has over 16500 charging stations, France has 23000 public charging stations, Germany 13500, Italy 2000, Demmark 2060+, Netherlands 122000, and so on. If we are truly in the top 5 for technology and the "greatest" nation in the world, Then we too can do this. If they have the technology, then so do we. If it can work for them it can work here too. No one is saying this has to happen in the next 2-3 yrs, or all at once. Many Gas stations have room for 5-20 recharging stations. Get a good mix going. Gas pumps plus recharging stations. Conservatively, In 7-10 yrs we may see our first RV that can do 300-350. One of the members here, even sent a link about the Rivian EV Truck that was at the car show in 2018; but surprisingly no comments from the nay sayers.
Reisender thanks for looking at the glass half full. Alles gute auf die naechste reise.

There is a standard that all electric vehicles use for level 1 and 2 charging. It is J1772 standard and every electric vehicle in production today uses it. Some like Tesla use a physical adapter but the standard is all the same.

Level 3 is a different story but there are only three standards presently. Tesla (open to all manufacturers, CCS and Chademo.

The average North American EV uses less than 10 KWH per day. Although some grid upgrading will be required this is not expected to be a big challenge by most utilities. Personally our household is close to about 6 KWH per vehicle and we have two vehicles. We are probably below the average. An additional 20 amp 240 volt circuit per household is more than enough to fill the requirement of the average household. We do half of our charging from a 120 volt 12 amp circuit.

Rickjay
"Did you read time2roll's link? Here in Massachusetts they talk about being allowed to spend $45 million dollars to put in some 3,500 charging stations by 2025. Ok, we're not a big state, but 3,500 charging stations is a trivial amount even for our miniscule state. Although, this is at a cost of over $12,000 per station. AND, that doesn't include the cost of the charging station, that's just running the power to a pad someplace from a transformer. The land owner who partakes in the program has to BUY the charging stations themselves. Eversource is only going to bring the power in and meter it. The business will have to pay the other expenses. What is the ROI for a company to do this? I have no idea, but perhaps you do?"

So from my understanding, the Big uility companies in Europe are partnering up with the big Automakers like Benz and BMW and VW, these then may then partner up with Big oil stations like Total (very big in Europe), they install charging stations in their gas stations. RickJay, I'm aware that we can't do this over night, and no 1 Industry can do it on it's own, it's gonna take the utility companies and big auto and big oil to work together on this. It's a Concerted effort. But with many of the attitudes I see here, we won't get far. Change can be easier, if we tone down the Resistance to it. That's all.

"And another thing that bothers me is that Eversource is projecting this project out to 2025 here in Massachusetts. That's 7 years away!!! This technology is changing rapidly. What guarantee is there that a charging station installed in 2018 will be usable by vehicles manufacture in 2025? Or 2024? Or 2023? Or even 2020? As far as I know, there is NOT a single charging standard which ALL EVs use, is there? I thought there were at least 2 or 3 major standards. So, it's more than just having a charging station available, you have to have access to a charging station which will work with your vehicle. And once your vehicle gets "too old" will there be retro charging stations available. The model years of vehicles in our family are 2004, 2003 & 2001, and I expect to have ALL of them for at least the next 5 years. I have 100% confidence I'll be able to buy gasoline anywhere in the country to operate any of those vehicles. IF an EV was manufactured in that era, would it's charging technology still be available? In what numbers?"

You are so right...Remember when we had R/C cables, then others I don't remember, then we go to the USB and now we're already at blue tooth and wireless. How many here foresaw this technology? 12 yrs ago they were saying Fiberoptic was the next big thing, 2 yrs ago they started installing it my neighborhood, the next big thing is supposedly called "Fiber," but don't ask me about it. What I'm saying We don't know everything, so instead of coming on here and bashing things, Just Leave some room for doubt.

"My point being that this technology is evolving rapidly and modern industries have a very poor record of caring about customers using older equipment. Your cable company will tell you: "You need a new modem!" "But this one is only 3 years old!". "Doesn't matter, you need to meet our new protocols." "But I don't need the benefits of your new protocols." "Sorry, your old modem won't work with our new system." Or Apple, or Microsoft. Both of those companies have extensive records of changing their products and if your equipment is too old, their answer is for YOU to buy new equipment. Heck, I have an iPad that worked fine until Apple sent out an OS update, and now applications which worked FINE the day before and for several ipads BEFORE this one, NO LONGER WILL WORK. Same hardware! Apple changed something in their OS, they KNEW what they were doing, and didn't care. Oh, and let's not forget the Apple updates that were purposely slowing down older units to encourage customers to buy newer, faster devices. Will they do the same with EV's? "Hmmmm....my Tesla doesn't seem to have the same zip it had before." "Oh, you need to trade it in for version 2.0 to take advantage of all the new enhancements we've added to the software." "But, I don't NEED those enhancements, it was working fine for my use." "Trust me, we know best about what you need. Just give us your money." Probably a bit far-fetched. Or is it? The truth is, we don't know for sure."

That's why we also need the Gov't to do their part. Instead of making it as problematic as you just recounted why not apply the same methodology as we do for Recalls. He#%, I have a 2014 Chrysler that I hardly use (because the DW doens't like how I drive so we use the slower mazda 3)but it already had 3 recalls on it, but they always make the changes when I go in and do my oil change, which is probably once a yr because I probably drive it once every 10-14 days, lol.

"Again, I LOVE the technology. As a gear-head mechanic through my college years, I LOVE the performance that comes with the EV technology. But when I buy an expensive item like a motorhome, house, car, major appliance, I expect it to be viable for a time period measured in decades, not 5-7 years."

Absolutely. Again I'm with you. But aren't you used to that yet? this has been going on Since (at least in my lifetime) since the ATARI days, it changed every 3-4 yrs at first, then every 2 yrs, then every yr. You know the rest. You and me both know that the Iphone 15 is already in the warehouses, but they need to make there billions off of Iphone 11, 12, 13...15 first.

"I'm not trying to sound negative, but I've "invested" enough of my money over the years in the "bleeding edge" technology of home computer evolution. I have neither the ambition nor the dollars to do that with EVs."

You're right again. I'm just saying, let's sit back and enjoy what "tomorrow" has to offer without bashing it. Let's just be pleasantly surprised. It's been beautiful talking to you. But all this talkin' got me thirsty. Time for a cold one. Happy New Year. God bless.

Rick, very good write-up and conclusions, but we may be spitting into the wind.....