Forum Discussion

Baja_Man's avatar
Baja_Man
Explorer
Nov 21, 2017

Help needed with CAT scale numbers

After discussing in a previous thread about my Equalizer hitch 1200/12000 model and if is appropriate for my truck / trailer, I believe it would best to get real CAT weights.

Below are my CAT scale weights today. The weights / procedures were
found here on RVnet as recommended for finding trailer tongue weight, trailer weight, WD weights, tow vehicle weight, etc

Tow vehicle - (with one 285# occupant):
FULL fuel tank
Approx. 100# in bed

Trailer -

Ready to travel...
FULL propane
FULL water
Full gear in forward storage (table, chairs, BBQ, etc)
Clothes, dishes, pots/pans, books, linen, tools, etc.



Weight #1 - (trailer connected to tow vehicle and WD hitch hooked up) front TV axle on scale 1, rear TV axle on scale 2, and trailer axles on scale 3

Axle 1 (TV front axle): 3360#
Axle 2 (TV vehicle rear axle): 4680#
Trailer axles: 8120#
Total axles: 16,160#

Weight #2 - Same set up as above except WD hitch NOT hooked up and WD trunion bars placed in back up pick up bed

Axle 1: 3240#
Axle 2: 4840#
Trailer axle: 8060#
Total axles: 16,140#


Weight #3 - Truck ONLY (all above apply...occupant, fuel, bed weight)

Steer axle: 3740#
Drive axle: 3160#
Total axles: 6900#


So, please help me understand what all of these numbers mean!

I would like to know the following so I can proceed with purchasing the correct WD hitch and truck receiver hitch.

My current Equalizer hitch is a 1200#/12000#
My trucks receiver is factory WD 1250#/12500#


1. Trailer tongue weight (so I can purchase correct WD hitch and truck receiver hitch

2. Trailer weight

Thanks!

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First Thread from 11-21-17:

After discussing in a previous thread about my Equalizer hitch 1200/12000 model and if is appropriate for my truck / trailer, I believe it would best to get real CAT weights.

Below are my CAT scale weights today. The weights / procedures were
found here on RVnet as recommended for finding trailer tongue weight, trailer weight, WD weights, tow vehicle weight, etc

Tow vehicle - (with one 285# occupant):
FULL fuel tank
Approx. 100# in bed

Trailer -

Ready to travel...
FULL propane
FULL water
Full gear in forward storage (table, chairs, BBQ, etc)
Clothes, dishes, pots/pans, books, linen, tools, etc.



Weight #1 - (trailer connected to tow vehicle and WD hitch hooked up) front TV axle on scale 1, rear TV axle on scale 2, and trailer axles on scale 3

Axle 1 (TV front axle): 3360#
Axle 2 (TV vehicle rear axle): 4680#
Trailer axles: 8120#
Total axles: 16,160#

Weight #2 - Same set up as above except WD hitch NOT hooked up and WD trunion bars placed in back up pick up bed

Axle 1: 3240#
Axle 2: 4840#
Trailer axle: 8060#
Total axles: 16,140#


Weight #3 - Truck ONLY (all above apply...occupant, fuel, bed weight)

Steer axle: 3740#
Drive axle: 3160#
Total axles: 6900#


So, please help me understand what all of these numbers mean!

I would like to know the following so I can proceed with purchasing the correct WD hitch and truck receiver hitch.

My current Equalizer hitch is a 1200#/12000#
My trucks receiver is factory WD 1250#/12500#


1. Trailer tongue weight (so I can purchase correct WD hitch and truck receiver hitch

2. Trailer weight

Thanks!
  • Grit_dog's avatar
    Grit_dog
    Navigator
    Nov 24, 2017
    jim1521 wrote:
    Baja, the 1200 should do it if you stay the same (<1200 lbs TW), but if it were me, I'd go to the 1400.

    Also, you MUST get the proper height shank. If you don't, it'll screw up your tires as they won't be carrying an even load.


    Only if the trailer has torsion axles. With torsion spring axles, trailers need to be close to level. With tandem leaf springs, they modulate the weight between the 2 axles, until you get to extreme angles where the center link between the front and rear springs bottoms out.
  • Grit_dog's avatar
    Grit_dog
    Navigator
    Nov 24, 2017
    eHoefler wrote:
    The size of the bars are how much weight they can transfer, not the capacity of the tongue weight. You are well within your limits, you need to put more tension on the bars to transfer more weight, or adjust the head for more tilt. You are very close nad only need an adjustment to be dead on.


    ^This. Crank the WD bars up another link or 2 and call it good. It's not horrible now save for a bit more tongue weight than the receiver is "rated" for.
    You have a perfect base line now. Can do the rest by measuring fender gaps on the front of the truck. Correlate your loaded and unloaded fender well height to the weights from your scale report.
  • jim1521's avatar
    jim1521
    Explorer
    Nov 23, 2017
    Baja Man wrote:
    Questions:

    If I load additonal weight to truck bed, which I plan on doing in the next few weeks (camper shell, tools, camping supplies, possible a cargo slide, etc) approx. 600#.....

    1. will this increase my tongue weight?
    2. If so I would need to increase both the hitch to a 1400/14000 and receiver to at least 1400 tW.

    Thoughts?


    Short answer is no.

    Your hitch has a given rating. Assuming you have a Class IV hitch on your truck, you are limited to about 1,200 lbs attached to the hitch. If you want to go above that, you need a Class V hitch installed on your truck. For example, if you load 2,000 lbs on to a Class IV hitch, the excess weight could cause the Class IV hitch to fail.

    Classes of trailer hitches

    When you add weight to the back of the truck, you are adding it to the overall truck weight - and more specifically to the rear axle - slightly different from tongue weight.

    Given that you will be adding even more weight to the rear axle, it becomes even more important that the WDS does its job of transferring weight to the front axle.
  • Baja_Man's avatar
    Baja_Man
    Explorer
    Nov 23, 2017
    Questions:

    If I load additonal weight to truck bed, which I plan on doing in the next few weeks (camper shell, tools, camping supplies, possible a cargo slide, etc) approx. 600#.....

    1. will this increase my tongue weight?
    2. If so I would need to increase both the hitch to a 1400/14000 and receiver to at least 1400 tW.

    Thoughts?
  • jim1521's avatar
    jim1521
    Explorer
    Nov 23, 2017
    Baja, the 1200 should do it if you stay the same (<1200 lbs TW), but if it were me, I'd go to the 1400.

    Also, you MUST get the proper height shank. If you don't, it'll screw up your tires as they won't be carrying an even load.
  • Baja_Man's avatar
    Baja_Man
    Explorer
    Nov 23, 2017
    jim1521 wrote:
    jim1521 wrote:
    Your WDS is not doing anything.

    The steer axle on the empty truck was 3,740 lbs. When you connected the trailer up, you lost nearly 400 lbs off of the front, and gained over 1,500 lbs on the rear axle. The WDS should balance that out. You are WAY too tongue heavy.

    You need to measure the height of the wheel wells on both axles while the truck is empty, then measure them again with the WDS properly installed. They should not change - the WDS is supposed to offload some of that 1,500 lbs up to the steer axle, so that the two (steer axle and drive axle) are closer together. With all that weight on the back, it is causing the butt of the truck to drop down, and the nose of the truck to rise up - decreasing your steering ability.

    I'd take it to someone who knows how to install/adjust that WDS. You're way off right now.


    OK, I had some time today and ran your numbers through a spreadsheet I use to calculate load:

    16,160 Gross Weight (Max 19450. from scales receipt)
    6,900 Truck baseline weight (7580 unloaded/8000 loaded)
    3,360 Steer Axle Weight (Max 4900. from scales receipt)
    4,680 Drive Axle Weight (Max 4900.from scales receipt)
    8,120 Trailer axle weight (Max 10200. from scales receipt)
    1,140 Tongue Weight (Max 1260. Calculated. Do not change)
    8,040 Truck actual weight (Max 8800. Calculated. Do not change)
    9,260 Trailer Gross Weight (Max 10995.Calculated. Do not change)
    12% % Tongue Weight (Calculated. Do not change)

    (NOTE: Disregard numbers in parentheses; they are for my vehicle only).

    Your TW is good, but you've got a 1,220 lb differential between your steer axle and drive axle. That needs to be adjusted to get those numbers much closer together.


    JIm, thanks for taking the time to run these numbers through your spreadsheet, much appreciated.

    So, is my 1200/12000 Equalizer hitch adequate and safe to use or should I upgrade to the 1400/14000 unit?

    I will need a taller shank than the one I have currently as I am unable to get the truck ball level or slightly above the trailer coupler when it is level. The new shank works with both the 1200 and 1400 units.

    I can even consider another brand hitch if I were to upgrade. However, I used an Equlaizer hitch years ago and it proved to be very reliable and removed sway as intended.

    Thoughts?
  • jim1521's avatar
    jim1521
    Explorer
    Nov 22, 2017
    jim1521 wrote:
    Your WDS is not doing anything.

    The steer axle on the empty truck was 3,740 lbs. When you connected the trailer up, you lost nearly 400 lbs off of the front, and gained over 1,500 lbs on the rear axle. The WDS should balance that out. You are WAY too tongue heavy.

    You need to measure the height of the wheel wells on both axles while the truck is empty, then measure them again with the WDS properly installed. They should not change - the WDS is supposed to offload some of that 1,500 lbs up to the steer axle, so that the two (steer axle and drive axle) are closer together. With all that weight on the back, it is causing the butt of the truck to drop down, and the nose of the truck to rise up - decreasing your steering ability.

    I'd take it to someone who knows how to install/adjust that WDS. You're way off right now.


    OK, I had some time today and ran your numbers through a spreadsheet I use to calculate load:

    16,160 Gross Weight (Max 19450. from scales receipt)
    6,900 Truck baseline weight (7580 unloaded/8000 loaded)
    3,360 Steer Axle Weight (Max 4900. from scales receipt)
    4,680 Drive Axle Weight (Max 4900.from scales receipt)
    8,120 Trailer axle weight (Max 10200. from scales receipt)
    1,140 Tongue Weight (Max 1260. Calculated. Do not change)
    8,040 Truck actual weight (Max 8800. Calculated. Do not change)
    9,260 Trailer Gross Weight (Max 10995.Calculated. Do not change)
    12% % Tongue Weight (Calculated. Do not change)

    (NOTE: Disregard numbers in parentheses; they are for my vehicle only).

    Your TW is good, but you've got a 1,220 lb differential between your steer axle and drive axle. That needs to be adjusted to get those numbers much closer together.
  • Baja_Man's avatar
    Baja_Man
    Explorer
    Nov 22, 2017
    NOTE: Cal;led Equalizer hitch to inquire about the 1400/14000 hitch system. They said that the 1200# and 1400# trunnion bars are the same; only the head units are different.
  • mkirsch's avatar
    mkirsch
    Nomad II
    Nov 22, 2017
    In a nutshell, what you want is for your front axle weight to be as close is it can be to the 3740# "truck-only" weight, with the trailer hitched AND the WD bars engaged.

    Currently you are around 400# below what the front should weigh with the WD bars engaged.

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