Safety

Cummins12V98 wrote:

Harvey51 wrote:
Careful, One child is killed every day from accidental shooting.

Maybe you should post what ages are considered a "child".

Also post how many children die each year in 5 gallon buckets.

I am still WAITING!

It's nice to post something that really grabs your attention that shows little children all thru the article. But the FACT is they include "teenagers" in the "children" category. Gang bangers are part of these statistics. Maybe someone can post the ages of these "children".

The sad fact is these same people that are anti gun and throw out these deceiving statistics are the same ones that will NOT allow Eddie Eagle to come to their schools and teach children about gun safety. Yes the NRA sponsors the program but in NO way is the NRA promoted in the classes. Pretty sad a free program that DOES save lives is not allowed in there liberal areas that many just so happen to have some of the worse gun violence.

To show my "children" what a gun can do to a person I placed a watermelon on a tree stump and shot it with a shotgun. That opened their eyes!

cmcdar wrote:

TwinTurbo wrote:

cmcdar wrote:
OK, I'll bite...

GOD didn't give you a gun. God gave you a Commandment - Thou Shalt NOT KILL.

Gun ownrs talk about needing a gun because of lawbreakers with guns YET these same gun owners are often times the ones breaking the laws.

If an establishment says NO GUNS (their right) why do you feel your right is above everyone elses?

But this thread was not about the right to have a gun. This thread was about SAFETY while camping.

I'm in a campground right now. The campground forbids firearms (their right). The only reason I feel unsafe at all is because I know that gun owners will bring their guns regardless.

A lot of false assumptions in your post. First, remove religion from the convo. It is possible to support the 2nd amendment without following religion.

Second, you're assuming someone that is legally armed would patronize an establishment that does not support them being legally armed. Personally, I would not and do not spend my $ at/in places that want to restrict my freedoms. At least as best as I am able to do so.

You sound like you have an irrational fear of people that choose to exercise their 2nd amendment right.

Your outrage only shows your blatant disregard for my rights.

I say, you can have a gun, please don't bring it into my space. You say, you will bring it anywhere you please.

THIS is why folks have problems with this issue.

There is no "outrage" in my post. However, you're welcome to define the portion you found to be outrageous.

I'm not following the argument you're making. I have the right bear arms, and I exercise that right.

I don't know how you define "your space." You're putting words in my mouth, as I never said I "will bring it anywhere I please". In fact, I said the opposite. I do my best to avoid locations, entities, etablishments, etc. that do not respect my rights.

In other words, you can stay in your safe space and I'll be somewhere else enjoying my freedom. I'm not sure why you find that irrational or offensive.

cmcdar....you are absolutely correct, my creator did not give me a "gun", he gave me the ability to use anything (a brain) at my disposal from rocks and sticks to man made "guns" to protect myself and loved ones. I also agree that my rights do not override those of private property owners therefore I don't patronize establishments that deny me my rights and that includes campgrounds.....yes, I check the rules and regs of the property.

NYCgrrl.....the Constitution, Declaration of Independence and the Bill of Rights are separate documents but most people view them as one and the same. I know...I know.....a sad testament to public education. The Supreme Court has ruled a number of times that the 2nd amendment is not specific to being in a militia.

The original poster asked about the prudence of having a firearm while camping and for me that falls under the issue of we must be responsible for our own safety and if we are not prepared with the best form of defending ones self then you put yourself at the mercy of those that would do harm ......no matter how miniscule that situation may be. If you are not familiar with firearms and not willing to get the training needed to be confident and responsible with it then don't get one.

TwinTurbo wrote:

cmcdar wrote:
OK, I'll bite...

GOD didn't give you a gun. God gave you a Commandment - Thou Shalt NOT KILL.

Gun ownrs talk about needing a gun because of lawbreakers with guns YET these same gun owners are often times the ones breaking the laws.

If an establishment says NO GUNS (their right) why do you feel your right is above everyone elses?

But this thread was not about the right to have a gun. This thread was about SAFETY while camping.

I'm in a campground right now. The campground forbids firearms (their right). The only reason I feel unsafe at all is because I know that gun owners will bring their guns regardless.

A lot of false assumptions in your post. First, remove religion from the convo. It is possible to support the 2nd amendment without following religion.

Second, you're assuming someone that is legally armed would patronize an establishment that does not support them being legally armed. Personally, I would not and do not spend my $ at/in places that want to restrict my freedoms. At least as best as I am able to do so.

You sound like you have an irrational fear of people that choose to exercise their 2nd amendment right.

Your outrage only shows your blatant disregard for my rights.

I say, you can have a gun, please don't bring it into my space. You say, you will bring it anywhere you please.

THIS is why folks have problems with this issue.

cmcdar wrote:
Many folks here have cited that they are armed in case of a situation like Orlando, or San Diego.

Well there is a REAL LIFE incident that happened in July 2016 in Dallas, Texas.

A Peaceful protest was taking place and there were 100 armed Police officers there to make sure it stayed peaceful.

Also in attendence were 20 to 30 marchers who were promoting Open Carry they all had AR-15 assult rifles.

So, by my count 100 armed police and 30 AR-15s equals 130 (at least) armed "Good Guys".

One gunman opened fire and NONE of the "Good Guys" could stop the guy. NONE.

The police finally had to send in a bomb to blow the sucker up.

Good Guy with a gun RARELY turns out well.

It is most likely much safer to remove yourself from situations that you perceive to be dangerous.

OP - Why on earth would you want to take yourself and family into a situation that you percieved to be so dangerous that you needed to arm yourself?

Wow... I'm trying to stay out of this, but you are taking one EXTREME situation way out of context. Nobody has ever said that a good guy with a gun WILL stop a shooter, just that a good guy with a gun CAN stop a shooter.

This circumstance was a crazed lunatic, intent on murdering police officers and dying in the process. It is impossible to stop a homicidal person who is also suicidal.

I will never criticize someone who chooses not to carry a handgun. A lot of you bring up very legitimate points. Taking a human's life is a devastating decision for the majority of the population. I'm not sure how many people on this forum can relate to that, but anyone who ENJOYS taking a human life has some issues. It requires a lot of training and knowledge of the law to adequately and appropriately respond with deadly force. It requires a lot of courage to stay in, or run too, a firefight. The normal human reaction is to flee from such things, appropriately so.

However, it is PROVEN that "gun free zones" and strict gun control laws do nothing to stem gun violence. All those laws do is stymie law abiding citizens from being able to protect themselves or others. A murdered doesn't really care about an additional 5 years in jail for gun law violations... they are MURDERING for goodness sake! Washington DC and Chicago IL have some of the strictest gun laws in the United States... hard to argue that the citizens there are safer for it. It is virtually impossible to get a concealed carry license in Maryland or California, yet in 2015 Maryland had 708 gun deaths and California had 3,095 gun deaths.

Look at the mass shootings in our recent history. Elementary school... gun free zone. Movie theater... gun free zone. Military bases... gun free zones. High school... gun free zone. Dance clubs/bars... gun free zones.

It is pretty obvious that lunatics hellbent on destruction and devastation are generally picking soft targets with lots of potential victims. Its much easier to engage in a mass shooting if you are the only person with a gun. All of those incidents that I listed above were ended when good guys with guns (police) showed up and responded with force. Without the police, who knows how the events would have ended and how many more people would be injured and killed.

The benefit of a nationwide system of concealed carry is widespread. Concealed carry wouldn't show a potential shooter who is armed, but he would have to worry about the potential for running into armed resistance. It won't stop ALL shootings, but it would certainly tip the scales back in the favor of a law abiding populace.

ken56 wrote:

It is unfortunate that people who own firearms can sometimes be careless with them and their children pay the price for that. I am sorry for that but they are YOUR children, not MINE and I am not responsible for their safety, YOU are. Taking MY firearms away will not keep YOUR children safe.......and yet we put up with fools behind the stearing wheel of a 2 ton death machine and thats acceptable.

Actually "careless" isn't even a part of the problem. The mind-boggling stupidity and horrendous decision making of some people who have firearms around children comes closer to pinpointing the issue.

First off: Children must be educated because they could come across a firearm anywhere and anytime - it's not just your firearm you need to worry about. If my pistol is sat on the table and I ask my now 10 year old girl "What's that?" she has always replied "It's your pistol. I mustn't touch it. You will teach me how to use it when I am able". Simple. She will not touch any firearm she sees/finds anywhere and if she finds one she will report it to an adult she knows. Trust me on this - I know her...

Second: We've all heard about "hair triggers" but come on!! They are downright dangerous insofar as you lack control. It's quite possible you will fire several shots simply because the recoil causes you to pull the trigger while you try to maintain control of the pistol while it goes through it's recoil cycle.

Anything less than a 2-2.5lb trigger pull is, frankly, irresponsible. If, as has happened, a small child can reach into his mother's purse to find candy and cause a pistol in the purse to fire, (hitting the mother), then the choice of trigger was astronomically stupid on the part of the mother. All but the most disabled or infirm can pull a 2.5lb trigger in a stressful situation but a kid groping for candy isn't likely to.

Third: Safety catch either not applied or non-existent. Holy cow, the utter stupidity of having a "hair" trigger on a firearm that lacks a safety or it is not applied when the weapon is in a ready state is grounds for prosecution for both negligence and stupidity.

Having said that, I am a big proponent of the Sig Sauer P2xx(x) series of pistols. Despite my last paragraph I have my Sigs in the ready state at all times and, shock/horror, there is no safety catch on this series of pistols. That "deficiency" is more than made up for by a device called a "de-cocker". When one places a round in the chamber the hammer remains "cocked" back and ready to fire. In this state the force required to fire the pistol is 2.5lb. Not heavy but not a "hair" trigger. When you activate the de-cocker the hammer comes _safely_ forward to the de-cocked position. In order to fire the pistol now one requires 10lbs of pressure. You simply don't fire these guns by accident when they are de-cocked.

All my family could fire the Sigs when the pistol is cocked and my wife and I can pull the 10lb de-cocked trigger too but my daughter is not yet capable of exerting that pressure. So, even if she did chose to break the golden rule of not touching she cannot yet make the pistol fire, (I test this theory from time to time just to be sure).

I did not stumble into this choice of pistol by accident. It's selection was the result of extensive research and discussion with military and LEO friends of mine. Initially, I was against having a pistol without a safety but was convinced by those friends to check the Sig P2xx(x) series. I am very glad I did.

Yes, I know that little rant was a little "off topic" but it really frosts me when these mind-bogglingly stupid people are given the benefit of being "careless" when they cost the life of a kid because they don't spend the time and effort learning about their options that will help keep their, and other's, kids safe.

Oh, and for the peace of mind of those who would think I leave my guns lying around I don't. It is always very close to me or holstered. If my daughter has friends over it is holstered or locked up because they are probably unaware of the "golden rule". The rest of my firearms will be locked away in the safe.

See, gun owners can be safe, responsible and, dare I say, an asset to society.

"When seconds count, help is only minutes away"

Not even a question when we camp in bear country with no cell service and we're on the ATV with no other protection.

In the last 6 months I have seen two news articles. One from Ft. Meyers, FL area and the other from AZ near the Cali border. Both articles were about armed civilians aiding an LEO that was being attacked.

Interesting that both instances the civilian was credited with saving the LEO's life. Sad that in both cases it required the civilian to kill the perp.

I say sad for the civilian. Could care less about the perp.

I grew up around firearms. Never had a gun safe until my children were in their pre-teen years. Not because of my kids, but because of the other kids that might come over to my house. No respect in them of other peoples property or of weapons/tools.

My children never regarded firearms with any mystique or awe. They knew what they were, how to handle them, and what they were used for. Now the youngest is approaching 30 yrs old and each still regards them with as much awe as one would a hammer or pinch bar.

My children know how to hunt, grow gardens, raise animals for food if they should ever need to. None have a burning desire to hunt, but they know how. They understand woodcraft and that they are responsible for themselves and their own actions.

For those who state they do not see the need. That they will call the govt. for help. LOL I never want to be in a position were I have to depend on others to protect me and mine.

While the odds of needing to use a firearm for defense are equal to winning the lottery, I know that at least one person and sometimes several win the big lotteries. "Today could be your Lucky Day"

I look at the Gas Detectors, Smoke Detectors, and other safety equipment in my 5th wheel. These are required by law. The odds of them being needed/used are up there with the Lottery. Same as needing a firearm for self-defense. So why do we not have a law requiring a firearm being in the RV? It is after all just a tool.

Basically, it is the "Disneyfication" of today's populace. Assigning human characterization to inanimate objects or animals. No tool is evil or good. It will lie still and never move until a human picks it up and uses it. It is how the human uses it that defines whether it was used for good or evil.

Why do I read articles about people getting hurt by Bison or Bears at Yellowstone? Because people think they are like Disney cartoon characters and not what they really are. These are wild animals and will react as wild animals will.

I have had firearms around me my whole life. Never once did a single one ever go on a shooting rampage. Never once did it jump into a child's hand. Same goes for my table saw, hammer, lawn mower, air nailer, etc.

Just as one should learn how to operate power equipment, motor vehicles, power boats, etc. Learn about something on your own. I found that more than half of what I was "taught" in school was not fact. Just another persons opinion. I also learned that those other people opinions did not hold water.

Do not take my opinion either. Go out and learn on your own. Then you can make up your own mind.

WTP-GC wrote:

Harvey51 wrote:
Careful, One child is killed every day from accidental shooting.

An article written and posted to solicit an emotional response, while focusing on bias and over-generalized statistics.

I've never ever felt threatened to the point of having to use my firearm...not even close. But that will not stop me from exercising my constitutional right to "keep and BEAR arms" in the event that such a cause ever presents itself. That includes in my RV, in my car, at my church, in my office, at the mall, etc. That unarmed mall security guard that roams aimlessly around the plaza is going to be little help. I don't worry about amateurs with guns as much as I worry about evil people who intend on causing violence.

Interestingly enough it's the same type of argument you used in an earlier post: a biased and emotional video to make your case for why guns are needed by the citizenry.
Strange, how that doesn't work for another poster in your opinion;).