Trailer Brake / Brake Controller Question

Ben,
My brakes work pretty well and stop the trailer with gusto but do not lock up. I think I could improve things by re-wiring it with heavier wire and a star pattern but am not going to go through that exercise at this time since we will probably only tow for one more year and then park the trailer permanently in my sons campground for our "summer place" :)
Barney

Barney, that is the best you can do given the circumstances of trailers today...

From just barely large enough axle ratings to the just barely good enough wiring system (from gauge, to connector, to routing, etc) and the trailer brakes themselves

Am known to re-adjust my trailer brakes several times during the trip, as they wear down past my liking. Since borrow trailers, those who loan theirs to me have been taught to have brand new rebuild kits in the trailer and/or I'll do a brake job before taking their trailer out

Miss the loss of local brake/clutch rebuilders. Now gotta accept whatever the parts counter has behind the counter...

bowler1 wrote:
So in response to a previous poster, I did check out the instructions for the Prodigy. It says that failure to lock up the trailer brakes generally indicates the need to have the trailer brakes checked.

I probably need to do that.

My logic is this: If you can't lock up the trailer brakes when manually applying the brake at 25mph, I would think that would not be a function of the trailer being heavier than the truck. In this instance the trailer is slowing down the truck and not the other way around. A trailer heavier than the truck should be able to slow the truck down I would think when the trailer brakes are applied in full and not the truck brakes.

I bought a new P3 brake controller. I think I will try that and see if that solves the problem, and if not then I need to look at getting my trailer brakes checked.

Matt

Here is a quote from the Prodigy P.3 manual.
In the middle of P.3 is says:
"Repeat Step (3) until power has been set to a point just below wheel
lock up or at a sufficient force as to achieve maximum braking power." (my bold)

Now a little later in the "Notes" on the bottom of P.6 it states:
"Not all trailer brakes will lock up due to various conditions. However, inability to lock up the brakes generally indicates the need
for an inspection to determine the cause."

As you can see, they admit that not all trailer brakes can be expected to lock up and this has been my experience also. My brakes have never been able to lock up on dry pavement in any trailer I have owned, despite being properly adjusted and a good working controller.

However, you are correct in thinking that you should get your brakes inspected to make sure you are getting the maximum braking power possible in your particular situation. I could very well be that the wiring in your trailer is of smaller size than optimum for maximum braking. It would not be the first time for that situation!:R
Barney

I expect my vehicle brakes to go to 100% whenever I press the brake pedal all the way down to max braking...and...expect my trailer to do so too

If I can NOT get 100% braking from my vehicle, then there is something wrong...and...ditto for the trailer

But...rarely do I press my vehicle brakes to 100%, except for an emergency situation...and...ditto for my trailer

The majority of the time, brake in the 10%-40% range and do go higher when driving aggressively and/or boy racer moments...but withOUT the trailer

Controller levers has a range from ZERO all the way to maximum, with a long range in-between

Setting up will go to 100% of the levers range to test and setup, which do each time getting ready to tow a trailer that has brakes

Again...ask: "do you folks go to 100% braking each time you press your brake pedal?"...and assume just academic, as most do NOT...right?

So, why does these questions always point to going to 100% for each trailer braking session?

PS...I do test my vehicles braking all the time and mostly get ABS to initiate, but am guessing most folks NEVER do so and expect their vehicle's brakes to be capable to go to 100% when needed

So in response to a previous poster, I did check out the instructions for the Prodigy. It says that failure to lock up the trailer brakes generally indicates the need to have the trailer brakes checked.

I probably need to do that.

My logic is this: If you can't lock up the trailer brakes when manually applying the brake at 25mph, I would think that would not be a function of the trailer being heavier than the truck. In this instance the trailer is slowing down the truck and not the other way around. A trailer heavier than the truck should be able to slow the truck down I would think when the trailer brakes are applied in full and not the truck brakes.

I bought a new P3 brake controller. I think I will try that and see if that solves the problem, and if not then I need to look at getting my trailer brakes checked.

Matt

mkirsch wrote:


Properly set, the wheels will NOT *NOT* **NOT** skid under any circumstances, but they will be set and adjusted to provide their maximum braking capacity.

Of course they will skid in your example. If they are set just short of skidding on the best surfaces, they will skid on surfaces that aren't quite as good.

The burnishing process, mentioned earlier, can cause a problem on new brakes. While the braking will be very poor till they are used quite a bit, turning up the controller to compensate will cause extreme usage of the magnets that still have not seated to the armature. So now you have brake shoes finally doing their job, and the drums and magnets are knackered.

Ugh. Some people just put on blinders and REFUSE to comprehend the process or logic behind it no matter how many times it's explained. For some reason I'm going to waste even more keystrokes and try to explain it again...

You do NOT *NOT* **NOT** set the brakes to skid "the moment I manually hit the lever." You set them to skid at FULL APPLICATION of the lever.

THENNNNNNN... you back the setting off until just they STOP *STOP* **STOP** skidding when you fully apply the lever.

Properly set, the wheels will NOT *NOT* **NOT** skid under any circumstances, but they will be set and adjusted to provide their maximum braking capacity.

If you cannot get the brakes to skid, you are not benefiting from the brakes' full capacity and capability, OR your brakes are undersized for the application.

I'm on the side of MUST be able to skid the trailer brakes

Many say don't worry about the TV's braking ability for the WHOLE setup, as the trailer brakes take care of the trailer...

Well...only if it can skid the tires for an emergency braking moment...and/or the controller is capable to do that

Since most trailers weigh more than the TV, its brakes MUST be able to do so...or else they will push the TV during a hard or emergency braking moment

So ask if anyone would accept that their TV won't/can't skid the TV's tires ?

Sure today most all have ABS, but that is the point of braking isn't it?...to be able to maximize the braking for that emergency moment when Mr Murphy crosses your path

Yes, I don't own a trailer and most likely won't...as many church members offer theirs to me...knowing I'll tune it/fix/etc for them too...but because of that metric...I've touched many and improved most...there are a few will never touch again, as they could NOT be improved without major work

Mainly the condition of their wiring harnesses & brakes

bowler1 wrote:

The reason I would like to be able to lock up the camper brakes is because that is how you are supposed to set them. If you read the instruction manual you are supposed to find the point at which they lock up and then dial the brakes back just below that point.

And if you read farther in most of the instructions, it will usually tell you that with heavier trailers the brakes will most likely NOT lock up.

Add to this the fact that I don't get adequate braking power without being on one of the boost modes. That is why I ask the question and wonder if I am getting all the braking power I should.

The boost mode does not increase the amount of braking power. It simply adjusts the maximum power to the boost setting you choose for a few seconds and then the inertia setting takes over. That means if you have it set on boost 1, you will get x percent of max power. If you have it set on boost 2 or 3 you will get x+ percent of max power - and each of these only lasts for a few seconds and then the controller depends on the rate of deceleration to adjust the brake power.

I guess what I am getting at is that using boost mode will not increase the amount of braking you get. The max amount of braking you get will depend on what you have adjusted the controller to give.

I suggest you set up your controller again and don't worry about locking up the brakes. Most stock trailer brakes are not able to do that except on sand or gravel. Adjust them for maximum brake "feel" when using the manual lever and you should be fine.
Barney

op wrote:
When I set up the brake controller (following proper procedures and manually applying the trailer brakes at about 25mph) I cannot get the trailer brakes to come close to locking up, even when the brake controller is set to the highest setting.

I've bought probably 10-11 GN flatdeck/enclosed trailers and put them in commercial service.
My current 5th wheel is the fourth rv trailer I've owned. All were new or used units with the same Dexter/Rockwell American trailer axles we use on our rvs.
The first thing I did to all my trailers brakes was do away with all clam shell type connectors and go with a soldered connection. Just this alone allowed me to adjust the controller high enough to slide the tires even at max loads. To those that don't understand the reasons to have that ability of being able to slide the tires ....they probably never will.
If it didn't I went to the brake magnets and ran a ohms check to see if they were at peak operating performance per specs. If they weren't I replaced them with new or uprated ones........ if offered.

We had a poster on one of the trailering forums say his brakes were getting 12 volts but found where a couple of wires were down to 2-3 strands where the factory had pulled them across a sharp corner of the frame.
And of course a bad ground in the system may cause poor braking performance.