Why assume I like your music

lakeside013104 wrote:
A few points about your post, MR Redwood,

Number 1, "Old RV driver": At one time, the elderly had our respect. Respect of the elderly is an admirable quality. Far too many would just cast aside those who are older than thee. It would be a sad case indeed, if more folks felt like you do.

I have always believed that respect is earned. It is not a right to be given to someone because of an arbitrary qualification - like age, position, wealth, etc. It is earned because it is given. You respect others, others respect you. And you don't worry about whether you are respected, you do the right thing because it is the right thing.

lakeside013104 wrote:
Number 2, "Self Centered": Very close to judging another person. None of us has the "right" to judge another.

I agree with this. We don't know why the "old RVer" is driving slow. To assume they are just being self-centered is leading into a need to "teach them a lesson" rather than trying to understand them. I remember driving home from a camping trip once when my windshield wipers developed a problem. If I drove over 40mph, the wipers would get pushed off the windshield by the wind. So, I drove 35mph all the way home. I pulled over whenever I could, but there were times I had more than 6 vehicles behind me. I couldn't safely move over, but those folks behind me couldn't see why I didn't drive faster. Several honked and tailgated me. They apparently thought I was being a selfish driver, when in reality I was trying to get home without an accident.

lakeside013104 wrote:
Number 3, You indicated that this old RV driver was driving too slow. Perhaps a more appropriate consideration would be that this driver is driving at the safe and reasonable speed that is prudent to him / her.

I agree. Again, see my example above.

lakeside013104 wrote:
Number 4, Your complete message goes to the fact that your patience in this example is missing. Why are so many folks today so angry and unwilling to accept others as they are, in this case, driving a little slower than what you judge is best?

Again, this is directly related to personal responsibility. As a society, we are so busy worrying about how others are acting, that we don't pay attention to how we ourselves are acting.

lakeside013104 wrote:
Number 5, "I can't count the number of times I have seen 6 - 20 cars & trucks". Maybe one should take an honest look at one's own driving habits. If I was continually coming up on a line of drivers and needing to pass, just maybe there could be an issue with my own driving if I am continually in the position of having to pass everyone else.

Take a break, smell the roses, look and see this beautiful country around you. Enjoy the differences of the people around you. I guarantee that the few extra minutes it takes you to get where you are going will result in you feeling less stress once you get there.

Safe travels Mr Redwood.

Lakeside

We can all choose how we travel through our lives. If someone chooses to push themselves on the journey to spend more time at the destination, that is their choice. We can't control them.

At the same time, if someone chooses to smell the roses along the way, that is their choice. We can't control them.

What we can control is how we ourselves act. Rather than condemning the other for doing it differently, we should focus on how we do it and leave them to their own way. Unless the other person is actually harming others in their behavior, then let them be. And that means driving habits, loud music, generator use, religion, sexual orientation, political leanings, etc. Worry about yourself and let others worry about themselves.

lakeside013104 wrote:

Redwoodcamper wrote:
I can't count the number of times I've seen 6-20 cars and trucks stuck behind one self centered old rv driver who thinks everyone else is driving to fast.

A few points about your post, MR Redwood,

Number 1, "Old RV driver": At one time, the elderly had our respect. Respect of the elderly is an admirable quality. Far too many would just cast aside those who are older than thee. It would be a sad case indeed, if more folks felt like you do.

Number 2, "Self Centered": Very close to judging another person. None of us has the "right" to judge another.

Number 3, You indicated that this old RV driver was driving too slow. Perhaps a more appropriate consideration would be that this driver is driving at the safe and reasonable speed that is prudent to him / her.

Number 4, Your complete message goes to the fact that your patience in this example is missing. Why are so many folks today so angry and unwilling to accept others as they are, in this case, driving a little slower than what you judge is best?

Number 5, "I can't count the number of times I have seen 6 - 20 cars & trucks". Maybe one should take an honest look at one's own driving habits. If I was continually coming up on a line of drivers and needing to pass, just maybe there could be an issue with my own driving if I am continually in the position of having to pass everyone else.

Take a break, smell the roses, look and see this beautiful country around you. Enjoy the differences of the people around you. I guarantee that the few extra minutes it takes you to get where you are going will result in you feeling less stress once you get there.

Safe travels Mr Redwood.

Lakeside

1. You are correct. I should have phrased that differently. I have huge respect for our older generations, and I shouldn't make umbrella statements. At the same time, it is undeniable that in some instances, older folks have a hard time driving at a speed comparable to others on the road. Causing a hazard. That being said, I will be just as critical of untrained kids who put others in danger. Again, I feel strongly about this from personal experience. In the last two yrs in my tiny county there have been three deaths from rv drivers in their 70s and up. One had a heart attack, and one fell asleep, both crossing the line and killing people. And from personal experience I had to lay down my motorcycle with my wife on the back because of a guy in an RV going 20mph on a highway with a 55mph speed limit. He was stopping to smell the roses, so his wife could take pictures. It's a highway. Pull over.

2. You are correct. But this whole thread is about people more interested in themselves than others.
3. If a safe and reasonable speed to a particular person is vastly different than the other 90percent of people on the road, something is wrong. Legally and morally. They should make adjustments. That's like saying, that the person. Blasting music for the whole campground likes their music that way, so everyone else should deal with it.
4. I am content with people driving in a variety of ways. But there are boundries to what is acceptable by law and by the majority of people.
5. I drive 40k miles a year and haven't had an accident in 15 yrs. I go to the track when I want to drive in a way that is not appropriate for the road. In this example, I'm like in the middle of the large pack of cars. Most people in cars I don't need to pass.

I agree!!! I bought a camper to take a break and smell the roses. We STOP, get out, and walk around to enjoy the roses. Highways are full of emergency vehicles, people accomplishing things. They are meant for travel. Going 30mph you aren't going to see any more roses than going 50.

.

toedtoes wrote:
Personal responsibility is missing because people (of all generations) are too busy condemning everyone else for the lack of it instead of trying to ensure that they themselves don't lack it.

And as long as we keep making excuses for everyone to NOT take personal responsibility, then society will continue to expand the lack of it.

I AM responsible for my actions. I AM responsible for how I interact with you. You ARE responsible for your actions. You ARE responsible for how you interact with me. If we BOTH worry about our own personal responsibility, we will live happily.

If I worry about your personal responsibility, then I stop managing my own. If YOU worry about my personal responsibility, then you stop managing your own. If we BOTH worry about each other's personal responsibility, we will live unhappily.

All we can control is our own. As long as we do that, we are one step closer to being happy. If we don't do that, then we can never achieve happiness.

So much of what you said overflows with wisdom.

Wishing you much happiness in life.

Lakeside

Redwoodcamper wrote:
This is why I do everything I can to camp alone. A more selfish generation never existed. At the same time, I can't count the number of times I've seen 6-20 cars and trucks stuck behind one self centered old rv driver who thinks everyone else is driving to fast. Some of the same ones who get mad at other blasting their music. Funny how that works.

Your post shows that it's not the generation. People of every generation are like this.

I camp in campgrounds. I have only experienced one or two times where another camper has been an issue. I have camped next door to a youthful bachelor party campout with booze, loud music, and all and have had a great experience. Why? Because I worried about MY personal responsibility and they worried about THEIRS. They approached me at the beginning and explained why they were there and that if their noise bothered me to just go tell them to quiet down. They compromised. I, in turn, didn't whine and moan every time I heard their music or the clanking of beer bottles, etc. We all took responsibility and at the end of the weekend we all left having had a great time.

The few times it wasn't as positive an outcome was when one party chose not to take personal responsibility. However, I kept to mine and I didn't retaliate or exacerbate the problem by sacrificing my ethics to "teach them a lesson". In the end, while I had been annoyed (generators running outside of generator hours, parking in my campsite without asking, etc.), I didn't get all boiled up and I didn't create a scene involving other campers and/or the host, etc., for an annoyance. In the end, I had an enjoyable stay - if not the most enjoyable.

Redwoodcamper wrote:
I can't count the number of times I've seen 6-20 cars and trucks stuck behind one self centered old rv driver who thinks everyone else is driving to fast.

A few points about your post, MR Redwood,

Number 1, "Old RV driver": At one time, the elderly had our respect. Respect of the elderly is an admirable quality. Far too many would just cast aside those who are older than thee. It would be a sad case indeed, if more folks felt like you do.

Number 2, "Self Centered": Very close to judging another person. None of us has the "right" to judge another.

Number 3, You indicated that this old RV driver was driving too slow. Perhaps a more appropriate consideration would be that this driver is driving at the safe and reasonable speed that is prudent to him / her.

Number 4, Your complete message goes to the fact that your patience in this example is missing. Why are so many folks today so angry and unwilling to accept others as they are, in this case, driving a little slower than what you judge is best?

Number 5, "I can't count the number of times I have seen 6 - 20 cars & trucks". Maybe one should take an honest look at one's own driving habits. If I was continually coming up on a line of drivers and needing to pass, just maybe there could be an issue with my own driving if I am continually in the position of having to pass everyone else.

Take a break, smell the roses, look and see this beautiful country around you. Enjoy the differences of the people around you. I guarantee that the few extra minutes it takes you to get where you are going will result in you feeling less stress once you get there.

Safe travels Mr Redwood.

Lakeside

pnichols wrote:
I wonder who are the more selfish: The ones who think they have a right to drive (almost) as fast as they want just because they think that their reflexes and vehicles (RV and otherwise) and laws of physics seem to be up to it at the time ... or the ones who love and value their lives and that of those around them enough such that traveling in their vehicles (RV and otherwise) with a larger margin of safety is the more prudent way?

Wisdom is the name of the game - nothing else will suffice in the long run.

You misunderstand. If there are 20 cars who want to drive responsibly at or under the speed limit in a safe manner, and one person who because of age, lack of skills, lack of equipment ability, or just spite, wants to drive 20mph under the speed limit for miles at a time and refuses to pull off, that is the kind of selfishness I'm speaking of. I personally have witnessed, and dealt with, an accident due to a situation like this. And my wife and I were almost killed by an RV while riding responsibly on our motorcycle. That is why I feel strongly about it. I agree completely with you that it is selfish and unwise to put anyone life in danger just to save time.
We are all talking about the same principle. Treat others how you want to be treated. Not "screw others because I'm right and more important than them."

Personal responsibility is missing because people (of all generations) are too busy condemning everyone else for the lack of it instead of trying to ensure that they themselves don't lack it.

And as long as we keep making excuses for everyone to NOT take personal responsibility, then society will continue to expand the lack of it.

I AM responsible for my actions. I AM responsible for how I interact with you. You ARE responsible for your actions. You ARE responsible for how you interact with me. If we BOTH worry about our own personal responsibility, we will live happily.

If I worry about your personal responsibility, then I stop managing my own. If YOU worry about my personal responsibility, then you stop managing your own. If we BOTH worry about each other's personal responsibility, we will live unhappily.

All we can control is our own. As long as we do that, we are one step closer to being happy. If we don't do that, then we can never achieve happiness.

I wonder who are the more selfish: The ones who think they have a right to drive (almost) as fast as they want just because they think that their reflexes and vehicles (RV and otherwise) and laws of physics seem to be up to it at the time ... or the ones who love and value their lives and that of those around them enough such that traveling in their vehicles (RV and otherwise) with a larger margin of safety is the more prudent way?

Wisdom is the name of the game - nothing else will suffice in the long run.

This is why I do everything I can to camp alone. A more selfish generation never existed. At the same time, I can't count the number of times I've seen 6-20 cars and trucks stuck behind one self centered old rv driver who thinks everyone else is driving to fast. Some of the same ones who get mad at other blasting their music. Funny how that works.