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azrving's avatar
azrving
Explorer
Nov 19, 2015

Blue Sky 3024il

I added 520 watts of solar and a Bogart 30 amp system to my rig. It works well but a new problem has happened. It's now common for people to ask how we can have all these lights going and a big tv and it's even more noticeable when the panels are tilted up. It seems to be a guy BS session magnet. So after meeting several new people we have become traveling friends with some of them. :)

One friend has Blue Sky 3024il system with 470 watts and 3 12v AGM batteries. As we sat around chewing the fat and comparing charge times etc, this guy said he never sees amperage above the teens. I jokingly told him I thought you MPPT guys had all the amps.

From there I gave him my beginner solar explanation of pwm vs mppt. He then said his panels all connected to a common bar just like mine. I said I dont think they can because it's mppt and they normally run those in series. At that point we went on the roof and sure enough it appears that they are all paralleled.

I looked at the specifications in his manual and it says PV input voltage: 57 vdc maximum.

He has 3 panels:
Kyocera 140
voc 22.1
vpmax 17.9
isc 8.68
ipmax 7.9

UL Solar: 140
voc 22.6
vmp 18.3
isc 8.21
imp 7.66

No name: 190
voc 21.45
vmp 17.4
isc 11.95
imp 10.92

I went the pwm route so my emphasis has been on playing with my Bogart system and learning it. I thought the idea behind mppt was to series the panels, reduce wire costs, etc. So I guess my main question is which voltage numbers are used. ocv of 66.06 OR vmp of 53.6? Second question is can these different panels be series? Will all 3 voltages drop to the lowest one of 21.5? Doesn't seem like it would matter as long as they are under max of 57 vdc.

He spent big money on everything and said he wanted the best when he bought the controller and inverter. Who ever installed the 3 agm batteries and inverter and solar controller did a beautiful job. All the cables are massive and well crimped.

He originally had a very cheap controller with one panel. It appears that as the next two panels were added they just kept paralleling them???? The last panel was added by a dealer in Yuma.

Any other suggestions are also appreciated. Thanks.

69 Replies

  • CA Traveler wrote:
    I agree that there is no reason to make changes until the current issues are resolved.

    Series/parallel could be OK but I would want 4 closely matched panels. There are other potential concerns so I'm not recommending that approach.


    I'll look at it more closely tomorrow. Early on he showed me the wires under the frig cover and said they are 6 g. I said no, they look like 10 g but that may be ok since it's mppt and they can use smaller wire. So as you point out, and now that I see the different panels in parallel there may be more issues. The battery cables are 4/0 and well built but I haven't looked closely at the controller wiring.

    Bfl, I did look at their website and it does have more than the installation and operation manual. I see that they are saying not more than 45.6 pvocv
  • Parallel is best with the existing equipment.

    Yes make sure the battery is connected correctly and no shade issues.
    Even one cell partially covered can drop out the whole panel.

    On a cool summer day he should see close to the Isc ratings added up.
  • I agree that there is no reason to make changes until the current issues are resolved.

    Series/parallel could be OK but I would want 4 closely matched panels. There are other potential concerns so I'm not recommending that approach.
  • In series the Voc is 66.15V which exceeds the controller w/o even considering temperature changes. In parallel Vmp is reasonable close. He has 3 different panels which might be a factor in optimal MPPT operation. These 3 panels are best suited for a PWM contoller at least in terms of cost.

    Whoever installed his system does not appear to know much about solar. There are many other installation questions like wire size and length for both the panels and to the battery. Also panel location relative to rig shadows (A/Cs etc) can be a significant problem. And who knows if all of the panels are OK. His 28.8A should produce about 18A+ for flat mounted panels in full noon sun.

    BTW 470W should be able to produce 30A flat mounted with full sun at noon. Something isn't right with his setup. Can you provide more information?
  • BFL13 wrote:
    I found the manual's limit deal
    "Automatic current limit prevents output current from exceeding 40A with 12V batteries and 12V PV’s. If PV open circuit voltage (VOC) ever exceeds
    30V which would occur with PV voltage greater than 12V nominal, current limit will become 30A until the 3024 reboots. Note that when the 3024 exits current
    limit, it will briefly enter acceptance on it’s way back to MPPT even though battery voltage may be low."\\

    So that doesn't apply here. if he is only seeing amps in the teens, did he hook up to the "load" terminals (limit of 20a) instead of the battery terminals?

    He shouldn't do anything yet till what he has gets sorted out IMO. He may be ok, just set-up wrong?


    I'll find out.
  • I found the manual's limit deal
    "Automatic current limit prevents output current from exceeding 40A with 12V batteries and 12V PV’s. If PV open circuit voltage (VOC) ever exceeds
    30V which would occur with PV voltage greater than 12V nominal, current limit will become 30A until the 3024 reboots. Note that when the 3024 exits current
    limit, it will briefly enter acceptance on it’s way back to MPPT even though battery voltage may be low."\\

    So that doesn't apply here. if he is only seeing amps in the teens, did he hook up to the "load" terminals (limit of 20a) instead of the battery terminals?

    He shouldn't do anything yet till what he has gets sorted out IMO. He may be ok, just set-up wrong?

    2 140s =280/130 x 8.2 = 17.7a aimed at high sun, less flat --maybe 15a? That's with PWM so add maybe 8-9% for MPPT = 17a? (flat)

    190/130 x 8.2 = 12a aimed at high sun so 10a flat? or 11a MPPT so should get about 28a with the two controllers
  • BFL13 wrote:
    He should be seeing around 25 amps with flat panels at high noon with 470w.

    Yes it is Voc that is used for the controller input limit, and that is adjusted for temperature so in cold weather the panel voltage might be higher than rated Voc, so need some "margin"

    The Bluesky has some other self -limiting amps thing can't remember right now. It is in its manual we looked at before sometime.

    He could put the two 140s in series with the Bluesky and get a second controller (Eco-worthy 20a MPPT ?)for the single 190 and parallel the controllers.

    Trick is to have both controllers with adjustable settings so they can be set to the same voltage to add their amps better.


    Ok I see. He hasn't mastered the Blue Sky control panel yet so 2 of anything will kill him. He's willing to pay for good stuff but he's not into this. So we could figure out what size panel he needs and get a smaller one. What kind of amperage would he get out of the two 140's at 44.7 volts? 20? or more because it's mppt?

    What kind of power would he get with four 140's series parallel? Or is that crazy? Would that now be over amping it? Like other toys that us guys like, he would like a 1000 watts but never use it. I asked him why and he just says because. I told him he can put 7 more ipn networked controllers in there with 4000 watts
  • He should be seeing around 25 amps with flat panels at high noon with 470w.

    Yes it is Voc that is used for the controller input limit, and that is adjusted for temperature so in cold weather the panel voltage might be higher than rated Voc, so need some "margin"

    The Bluesky has some other self -limiting amps thing can't remember right now. It is in its manual we looked at before sometime.

    He could put the two 140s in series with the Bluesky and get a second controller (Eco-worthy 20a MPPT ?)for the single 190 and parallel the controllers.

    Trick is to have both controllers with adjustable settings so they can be set to the same voltage to add their amps better.

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