2500 Ram payload

wilber1 wrote:

dshelley wrote:
Wilber: Your aviation background has no doubt provided you with various zero fuel weights, max taxi weights, max takeoff weights and max landing weights. All of these, if specified by the type certificates, are absolutes and must not be exceeded. My sticker in the door jam specifies the GVWR and is qualified by the wording "should never exceed". This use of the word should is a recommendation, not a legal requirement. This only serves the manufacturer to ensure the vehicle remains within a wide safe range for all road conditions, weather and even driver experience, but does not I'm
ply a legal or structural requirement.

When discussing the issue of "should" vs "shall" an old VP of Flt Ops of mine once said, "those who treat should as shall, should remain employed".

Can't argue with the VP, especial your own.

wilber1 wrote:

spoon059 wrote:

wilber1 wrote:
So you are saying you can put a 20K GVWR on a 3/4 T truck as long as you pay for it?

Correct. You are LEGAL for whatever you paid to register, so long as you have sufficient tire ratings for your weights. My Tundra had a GVWR of 7200 lbs. In Maryland you can register for 7000 lbs or 8000 lbs. My Tundra was registered for 8000 lbs, so I could legally drive 800 over my warranty card (yellow sticker) weight and there was nothing the police could do about it. I had E rated tires with over 12K rating combined. If I wanted to, I would have registered to 12K and towed a 5th wheel LEGALLY.

I would have some explaining to do when I tried to get my axle replaced under warranty though :)!

In my post I didn't actually say anything about being legal, that was someone else's claim. What I said was, he will be way over the limits set by the manufacturer of the vehicle. If some of you are OK with just pulling numbers out of the air and declaring yourself safe because some DMV clerk will give you a registration at that weight, go right ahead but you are deluding yourselves.

Do me a favor, can you find where I used the word SAFE anywhere in my post and please change the font to a different color so I can see where I made that mistake...?

Just to save myself from having to make another post in reply to you, I never said a single word about SAFE. You asked a question about being able to do something as long as you paid for it. I replied that LEGALLY you can do that. You asked, I answered.

Now, about it being SAFE... there is no specific law against stupidity. Trust me. I've been a cop for over 13 years and have looked long and hard for a specific law against it. You have to use other laws to lock up stupid people.

I didn't feel comfortable being close to my GVWR in my Tundra, which is why I own a Ram now. Legally I was fine, safety wise I didn't want to risk it with my wife and children's safety in my hands. It was worth it to spend a lot more money and upgrade to a heavier truck with much greater payload.

Ben here (AKA BenK) and the only experience with vehicle weights are with mine and
when dealing with hiring a flat bed to haul my control room(s) to Mobil Chem in
NY State. Each control room was a 10 ga steel box about 10' tall x 10' wide and
about 40' long

Containing motor controls, computer controllers, etc for the plastic process
lines. Ranging from 500 hp controllers (heat sinks weighing in the hundreds of
pounds and that is just the SCR inverters), brake controllers, etc, etc
down to fractional HP controllers

These had 'wide load' cars in front and behind to convoy it back to NY State

The haulers taught me about psi on pavement, as our insurance agent was right
next to us talking to the trucker



As for folks on the street...closest is our ski lift controls. Not the mechanical's
but the controllers...including the motor and it's inverter/controller

Sand bags on each chair to simulate a body(s).

All fine, till they found out that folks would pay to go up there for both pictures
and MTB down hill during the summer. Issue was that all the sizing of the
controllers and sensors were for a temp range that went down to -20F and
during the summer over heated.

Or that when their mechanical's failed...our systems could and did
bend towers down to the ground after enough chairs stacked up against
it...all the while skidding on the cable...we found that the owner had
directed his maintenance staff to bypass our safeties as ours had
both torque sensing/limiting and de-rail sensors...all by-passed by
that owner and our insurance told their insurance...

We dropped that line after seeing/hearing of too many law suits and
silly awards based on 'current' safety rules/reg's vs when the equipment
was designed.

OSHA is involved heavily there and we also learned (got sued) by a death on
one of our early gondola controller systems. Weight was part of the metrics
to that death, but we were dropped from that suit after my insurance provided
our certification tests vs the spec we bid/designed to


On the robotic cranes we also had weight based specifications/performance
mandates. OSHA was also involved with the deaths there and we also had the
law suits against us dropped after our documentation/notes were submitted

Some of the largest in the world (at that time) rubber tired robotic cranes
(8 food dia tires) are also mine, or their controllers are. New Jersey port
and handled containers. Weight was a huge issue, as we put in strain gauges
on our motor/gear boxes. Foul they said when our stuff would not lift one of
their test loads during certification/acceptance testing. Once we showed them
their own specification...that we met...and offered to up the load ratings if
they issued a change order and we rebid (think $$$)

Yes, we did NOTHING other than to dial in the new spec to the computers. But
we also changed their service costs...as that shortened or reduced the design
margin for everything we provided. Mainly the gear boxes and brakes. Brakes as
they would NOT hold that new weight and we just added calipers and changed the
pad material.


Not automotive related, but I know OEM liability and how that system works
More so how insurance works...and...the buyout with NDA's that the public will
never hear of


So, yes for DOT/DMV it all about PSI to the pavement. But not so for the vehicle
OEMs...it shortens longevity and margin...therefore service costs. Then once
it gets down to a line on safety/performance, then legal will get involved to
allow or not allow.

blt2ski wrote:
Wilber,
WHERE did any of us say we would be legal AND safe at 20k lbs in a sw pickup? We did not! Only from a legal standpoint. I even mentioned my rig w o Ulf fail the braking requirements in a field test at 20k labs. BUT if as noted, oil had a paid for weight registration tag, I would be legal. But unsafe due to.a failed brake system.
If one is unsafe, an LEO WILL get you off the road. It will not be due to being overweight in most cases. Even if I am overweight per say.

Marty

Again, I wasn't the one who brought legality. I said he was overweight and a bunch jumped in and said, but he is legal. So what, he is still overweight.

dshelley wrote:
Wilber: Your aviation background has no doubt provided you with various zero fuel weights, max taxi weights, max takeoff weights and max landing weights. All of these, if specified by the type certificates, are absolutes and must not be exceeded. My sticker in the door jam specifies the GVWR and is qualified by the wording "should never exceed". This use of the word should is a recommendation, not a legal requirement. This only serves the manufacturer to ensure the vehicle remains within a wide safe range for all road conditions, weather and even driver experience, but does not I'm
ply a legal or structural requirement.

When discussing the issue of "should" vs "shall" an old VP of Flt Ops of mine once said, "those who treat should as shall, should remain employed".

wilber1 wrote:
Buy one of them GM 2500's, they can tow anything. There is a guy in our park with a 2500 DM and a Landmark Key West. 41 Ft, GVW 18K, Dry 15.1 K, Dry PW 3395 lbs according to Heartland's website.

Ignorance is bliss!!!

Wilber,
WHERE did any of us say we would be legal AND safe at 20k lbs in a sw pickup? We did not! Only from a legal standpoint. I even mentioned my rig w o Ulf fail the braking requirements in a field test at 20k labs. BUT if as noted, oil had a paid for weight registration tag, I would be legal. But unsafe due to.a failed brake system.
If one is unsafe, an LEO WILL get you off the road. It will not be due to being overweight in most cases. Even if I am overweight per say.

Marty

spoon059 wrote:

wilber1 wrote:
So you are saying you can put a 20K GVWR on a 3/4 T truck as long as you pay for it?

Correct. You are LEGAL for whatever you paid to register, so long as you have sufficient tire ratings for your weights. My Tundra had a GVWR of 7200 lbs. In Maryland you can register for 7000 lbs or 8000 lbs. My Tundra was registered for 8000 lbs, so I could legally drive 800 over my warranty card (yellow sticker) weight and there was nothing the police could do about it. I had E rated tires with over 12K rating combined. If I wanted to, I would have registered to 12K and towed a 5th wheel LEGALLY.

I would have some explaining to do when I tried to get my axle replaced under warranty though :)!

In my post I didn't actually say anything about being legal, that was someone else's claim. What I said was, he will be way over the limits set by the manufacturer of the vehicle. If some of you are OK with just pulling numbers out of the air and declaring yourself safe because some DMV clerk will give you a registration at that weight, go right ahead but you are deluding yourselves.

wilber1 wrote:
So you are saying you can put a 20K GVWR on a 3/4 T truck as long as you pay for it?

Correct. You are LEGAL for whatever you paid to register, so long as you have sufficient tire ratings for your weights. My Tundra had a GVWR of 7200 lbs. In Maryland you can register for 7000 lbs or 8000 lbs. My Tundra was registered for 8000 lbs, so I could legally drive 800 over my warranty card (yellow sticker) weight and there was nothing the police could do about it. I had E rated tires with over 12K rating combined. If I wanted to, I would have registered to 12K and towed a 5th wheel LEGALLY.

I would have some explaining to do when I tried to get my axle replaced under warranty though :)!

Manufacturer ratings in the US equate to warranty coverage and not much else. As soon as you deviate from OEM, any engineering at a particular weight also changes. If look at German TUV, you cannot even use different tire sizes that are not specified for your vehicle...