Forum Discussion

AlmostAnOldGuy's avatar
AlmostAnOldGuy
Explorer
Jan 29, 2017

2016 Ram 2500 - Improving Payload

My neighbor is a good guy and went out and bought a 2016 Ram 2500 CTD with the 8' foot bed about a year or so back. It is a nice truck. Now that he has started looking at what he may be hauling he will likely exceed the payload sticker on the door. However, the good news is this is a 2500 with the artificially low GVWR of 10,000 so I expect he has room to maneuver with the understanding the 2500 is a de-rated 3500 SRW with softer rear springs and somewhat lighter axles. Using the specs from the 2016 Ram trailering guide I see the following numbers. I have asked him to get it on a scale but have estimated actual weight for his truck at 5k on the front axle and 3k on the rear axle unloaded.

2016 Ram 2500 from towing guide, crew cab, 4x4 long box, CTD
GVWR 10,000
Payload 2200
Front Axle 5,700 (estimated actual ~5000)
Rear Axle 6,000 (estimated actual ~3000)

2016 Ram 3500 SRW from towing guide, crew cab, 4x4 long box, CTD
GVWR 12,300
Payload 4,330
Front Axle 6,000
Rear Axle 7,000

Am I correct in thinking there are three differences between these trucks:
1) Heavier axles on 3500 (by 300 lbs front, 1000 lbs rear)
2) Heavier rear suspension
3) Badge
Assuming the wheels / tires are the same.

If this is correct and the chassis and front suspension is the same then his combined axle ratings yield a GVWR of 11,700. With an unloaded truck weight of 8,000 that leaves 3,700 payload. To be conservative we will knock off another 700 and call it a GVWR of 11,000 so he can haul 3,000 and be well within the capability of the truck. He would need to stiffen the rear springs.

Can anyone with direct knowledge of the Ram 2500/3500 SRW differences or experience hauling heavy with a 2500 share your thoughts? I would like to help him make a good decision on how to beef up the rear suspension (thinking Timbrens) and to keep it at a manageable weight.

Appreciate your help.

Thanks,
Stu
Tow Vehicles
  • donn0128's avatar
    donn0128
    Explorer II
    Jan 29, 2017
    Towing has little to do with much. My dually scales right at 8000 ready to go. My previous 2500 scaled at 7500 pounds. So I am going to assume that his truck will scale somewhere between those two numbers ready to go. He certainally will be able to tow most ant TT he is comfortable with length wise. As for hauling a fifth wheel? Since pin weights can be considerably higher than tongue weights of TTs is honestly going to want to limit himself to fivers under 12,000 GVWR. Anything more and he is not going to be happy with the outcome.
  • IdaD's avatar
    IdaD
    Explorer
    Jan 29, 2017
    AlmostAnOldGuy wrote:
    My neighbor is a good guy and went out and bought a 2016 Ram 2500 CTD with the 8' foot bed about a year or so back. It is a nice truck. Now that he has started looking at what he may be hauling he will likely exceed the payload sticker on the door. However, the good news is this is a 2500 with the artificially low GVWR of 10,000 so I expect he has room to maneuver with the understanding the 2500 is a de-rated 3500 SRW with softer rear springs and somewhat lighter axles. Using the specs from the 2016 Ram trailering guide I see the following numbers. I have asked him to get it on a scale but have estimated actual weight for his truck at 5k on the front axle and 3k on the rear axle unloaded.

    2016 Ram 2500 from towing guide, crew cab, 4x4 long box, CTD
    GVWR 10,000
    Payload 2200
    Front Axle 5,700 (estimated actual ~5000)
    Rear Axle 6,000 (estimated actual ~3000)

    2016 Ram 3500 SRW from towing guide, crew cab, 4x4 long box, CTD
    GVWR 12,300
    Payload 4,330
    Front Axle 6,000
    Rear Axle 7,000

    Am I correct in thinking there are three differences between these trucks:
    1) Heavier axles on 3500 (by 300 lbs front, 1000 lbs rear)
    2) Heavier rear suspension
    3) Badge
    Assuming the wheels / tires are the same.

    If this is correct and the chassis and front suspension is the same then his combined axle ratings yield a GVWR of 11,700. With an unloaded truck weight of 8,000 that leaves 3,700 payload. To be conservative we will knock off another 700 and call it a GVWR of 11,000 so he can haul 3,000 and be well within the capability of the truck. He would need to stiffen the rear springs.

    Can anyone with direct knowledge of the Ram 2500/3500 SRW differences or experience hauling heavy with a 2500 share your thoughts? I would like to help him make a good decision on how to beef up the rear suspension (thinking Timbrens) and to keep it at a manageable weight.

    Appreciate your help.

    Thanks,
    Stu


    Assuming no air on either, the difference is rear coils in the 2500 versus rear leafs on 3500. With the CTD he's going to have the same 18" or 20" tires/wheels as the 3500, and the axles, brakes, etc. are all the same. I have Timbrens on mine and really like them, but others prefer bags. Either way it makes up for the 500 lb lower stock RAWR - 6500 on the 2500 versus 7000 on the 3500. The Ram towing guide you cited above has numbers from base trucks (17" tires) so the actual numbers are a little higher. You can verify this on the driver's door sticker (the front axle is also higher at 6,000 lbs, so the combined is 12,500).

    Disclaimer - I gave the actual real world answer, not the rv.net answer.
  • MFL's avatar
    MFL
    Nomad II
    Jan 29, 2017
    I am not a Ram owner, but seems to me the RAWR on the 15, and newer 2500, was at 6,500. There are quite a few knowledgeable Ram owners on the forum, I'm sure they will chime in.

    Jerry
  • Grit_dog's avatar
    Grit_dog
    Navigator
    Jan 29, 2017
    Only difference is the rear suspension. Axle is actually good for 10klb, tires and springs become the limiting factor.
    Only real option I'm aware of is airbags assist for the coils.
  • vonzoog's avatar
    vonzoog
    Explorer
    Jan 29, 2017
    Ditto, ditto to what Donn0128 and Cummins12V98. I agree completely with what they have to say.

    I am the perfect example to your question. I use to have a 2004.5 RAM Cummings pulling a 9500 to 11000 lbs. Larado 5th wheel. This was no problem at all. I then bought my signature Raptor. This model has only two axles and is/was the smallest toy hauler at that time. It had a hitch weight around 2700 lbs. This made the truck squat way too much. I put on a set of air bags to level the truck out. I pull this way for three years.

    Yes, I was running over weight. Other than the extra weight, which was noticeable on acceleration, the truck rode and handle about the same as the old trailer. However, there was one BIG EXCEPTION. Stopping was not acceptable. White knuckles and scary as hell. I installed disc brakes on the trailer and I was happy again and traveled many miles.

    All that being said, I now have the 3500 dually and the difference is night and day. Yes it can be done, but by far, not the best way to go. The more weight you add, the more truck yo really need.
  • spoon059's avatar
    spoon059
    Explorer II
    Jan 29, 2017
    AlmostAnOldGuy wrote:
    the 2500 is a de-rated 3500 SRW with softer rear springs and somewhat lighter axles.
    Thanks,
    Stu

    The 2500 and SRW 3500 have the exact same axles. Assuming that the 2500 has 18" wheels, the ONLY mechanical difference is the 3500 has leaf springs rated to 7000 lbs, the 2500 has coils rated to 6500 lbs. No other mechanical difference between them.
  • AlmostAnOldGuy's avatar
    AlmostAnOldGuy
    Explorer
    Jan 29, 2017
    spoon059 wrote:
    AlmostAnOldGuy wrote:
    the 2500 is a de-rated 3500 SRW with softer rear springs and somewhat lighter axles.
    Thanks,
    Stu

    The 2500 and SRW 3500 have the exact same axles. Assuming that the 2500 has 18" wheels, the ONLY mechanical difference is the 3500 has leaf springs rated to 7000 lbs, the 2500 has coils rated to 6500 lbs. No other mechanical difference between them.


    Thanks spoon and others for clarifying. Makes sense they share the same axles too. Did not occur to me different axle ratings were due to wheels on base trim. Will suggest he use Timbrens or bags. He will not be going really heavy.

    Thanks,
    Stu
  • JIMNLIN's avatar
    JIMNLIN
    Explorer III
    Jan 30, 2017
    I would tell the neighbor not to add any aftermarket rear suspension product till he loads the truck and hooks up to the trailer and makes a short trip.
    Then is the time to decide if any thing is needed...which I doubt.

    We have a member who sold his '07 3500 SRW and bought the new 2500 Ram 6.4 hemi with rear coils to pull the same 12.5k 37' 5th wheel trailer with three slides. His comment was the 2500 with coils didn't swag anymore than his old 3500 SRW.

    What I see posted on some of the truck camper publications and websites is the 2500 with coil springs don't sag as much as the 2500 with leaf springs when loaded with those heavy truck campers.
  • CampingN_C_'s avatar
    CampingN_C_
    Explorer
    Jan 30, 2017
    JIMNLIN wrote:
    I would tell the neighbor not to add any aftermarket rear suspension product till he loads the truck and hooks up to the trailer and makes a short trip.
    Then is the time to decide if any thing is needed...which I doubt.

    We have a member who sold his '07 3500 SRW and bought the new 2500 Ram 6.4 hemi with rear coils to pull the same 12.5k 37' 5th wheel trailer with three slides. His comment was the 2500 with coils didn't swag anymore than his old 3500 SRW.

    What I see posted on some of the truck camper publications and websites is the 2500 with coil springs don't sag as much as the 2500 with leaf springs when loaded with those heavy truck campers.



    He also did a very detailed comparison with photos using a heavy 5er with his 2500 and a buddies 3500. If I recall correctly there was around a one inch difference in rear squat between the two.

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