F450 vs F350 SRW payload

4x4ord wrote:


Here is the specs for the 2020 super duty pick ups link. What specs in particular are you seeing that suggest the F450 is more capable? I see the 4.30 axle does give it the highest tow rating but I don't think there are any RV'ers who need a higher tow rating than what an F350 offers.

I'll post this link again... These are the Full 2019 SuperDuty Specifications. If you take the time to read them, you'll see the F450 has an entirely different front axle, heavier rear axle internals, and bigger braking system all around. When Ford switched to the aluminum body, the frame did become common with the F450 once again, but it's all around stiffer than the previous generation. Plus the wide-track front axle and 19.5" wheels.

Also, one more bonus with the F450... You can get a eLocker with 4.30 gears, but not with 4.10 gears as that ratio only gets LS as an opion. So if you must have an eLocker, on the F350 you are limited to 3.55 gears which is good for 36k combined vs 41k+ for the F450/4.30 gears.

These are relatively small differences, but enough to matter for some folks, and it's nice to have the option. It may not be for you. That's fine. Don't buy one then.

NRALIFR wrote:

4x4ord wrote:
^^^ Are you thinking that F450 buyers don't register their trucks to haul above 14k lbs? Who's buying these trucks and what for? I'm sure if comercial buyers are hauling above 14k they're registering their trucks to haul above 14k. Come to think of it I actually only know of one F450 pickup owner. I've got a nephew that bought one to haul his ego around with. Is the F450 an F350 with the wide track front axle? Is it anymore capable than the F350?

Are you under the mistaken belief that the F450 pickup is just a 450 cab and chassis with a pickup bed? It isn’t. Between the back of the cab and the rear bumper, the frames are completely different. Commercial buyers aren’t going to buy the F450 pickups.

Who’s buying them? I’ve bought two. First a 2010, and now the 2016 in my sig, and you can see what I’m doing with it. The 2010 actually had a 14.5K gvwr, making it a “just barely” class 4 truck. But, I think that ultimately caused some problems for some buyers with licensing, registration, and insurance. I believe it also could have created a situation for Ford where the F450 pickup was reducing sales of the 450 cab and chassis. Corporations usually try to avoid having one product line compete with another.

Comparing the F450 pickup to the F350 pickup, at least in the 2008-2010, and the 2014-2016 model years, they were undeniably more capable. The 2011 through about 2013 F450 pickups were (IIRC) just rebadged F350’s, and I’m not quite as familiar with the current model years. But, even if you include the F350’s that had the wide track front axle (which isn’t available for the F350 any longer) the F450 pickup axles were rated higher by the axle manufacturer. The brakes were also bigger, and the trucks came with 19.5” tires. Those were all desirable to me.

My camper and gear weigh enough that either truck would have been at max gvwr when loaded, so why not go with the one that has the heavier rated tires, wheels, brakes, axles, and a tighter turning radius?

:):)

I think the 2020 model F450 has bigger wheels brakes and the wide track front axle, so yes those are advantages. I think if they offered it with a heavier rear axle rating some commercial guys might rather have a pick up than a cab and chassis for towing gooseneck equipment trailers.

carringb wrote:

4x4ord wrote:
^^^ Are you thinking that F450 buyers don't register their trucks to haul above 14k lbs? Who's buying these trucks and what for? I'm sure if commercial buyers are hauling above 14k they're registering their trucks to haul above 14k

Correct. By and far, most states don't require weighed-registration for personal/RV use, but some do mandate that above 14k. Commercial users aren't generally buying pickups anyways. They are buying cab-chassis trucks.

I linked the detailed specs a while back (page 2?) and you can clearly see the F450 is quite a bit more capable, despite its 14k GVWR.

Here is the specs for the 2020 super duty pick ups link. What specs in particular are you seeing that suggest the F450 is more capable? I see the 4.30 axle does give it the highest tow rating but I don't think there are any RV'ers who need a higher tow rating than what an F350 offers.

4x4ord wrote:
^^^ Are you thinking that F450 buyers don't register their trucks to haul above 14k lbs? Who's buying these trucks and what for? I'm sure if comercial buyers are hauling above 14k they're registering their trucks to haul above 14k. Come to think of it I actually only know of one F450 pickup owner. I've got a nephew that bought one to haul his ego around with. Is the F450 an F350 with the wide track front axle? Is it anymore capable than the F350?

Are you under the mistaken belief that the F450 pickup is just a 450 cab and chassis with a pickup bed? It isn’t. Between the back of the cab and the rear bumper, the frames are completely different. Commercial buyers aren’t going to buy the F450 pickups.

Who’s buying them? I’ve bought two. First a 2010, and now the 2016 in my sig, and you can see what I’m doing with it. The 2010 actually had a 14.5K gvwr, making it a “just barely” class 4 truck. But, I think that ultimately caused some problems for some buyers with licensing, registration, and insurance. I believe it also could have created a situation for Ford where the F450 pickup was reducing sales of the 450 cab and chassis. Corporations usually try to avoid having one product line compete with another.

Comparing the F450 pickup to the F350 pickup, at least in the 2008-2010, and the 2014-2016 model years, they were undeniably more capable. The 2011 through about 2013 F450 pickups were (IIRC) just rebadged F350’s, and I’m not quite as familiar with the current model years. But, even if you include the F350’s that had the wide track front axle (which isn’t available for the F350 any longer) the F450 pickup axles were rated higher by the axle manufacturer. The brakes were also bigger, and the trucks came with 19.5” tires. Those were all desirable to me.

My camper and gear weigh enough that either truck would have been at max gvwr when loaded, so why not go with the one that has the heavier rated tires, wheels, brakes, axles, and a tighter turning radius?

:):)

Grit dog wrote:
Seems like the ultimate weight cop bait thread 4x4ord, coming from the guy who, iirc, changes oil every 30k need it or not and hauls 30k of hay with a 1 ton.
But maybe I got you mixed up with someone else?

Regardless, the rest of the clan is fired up about it, so carry on!

Yup, every time another fish bites, OP follows with another question, that he already knows the answer. Forums are slow, so any activity has some merit.:p

Jerry

I am licensed SD. I was concerned I may not have enough coverage for Tonnage. They said whatever I tow I am covered.

4x4ord wrote:
^^^ Are you thinking that F450 buyers don't register their trucks to haul above 14k lbs? Who's buying these trucks and what for? I'm sure if commercial buyers are hauling above 14k they're registering their trucks to haul above 14k

Correct. By and far, most states don't require weighed-registration for personal/RV use, but some do mandate that above 14k. Commercial users aren't generally buying pickups anyways. They are buying cab-chassis trucks.

I linked the detailed specs a while back (page 2?) and you can clearly see the F450 is quite a bit more capable, despite its 14k GVWR.

^^^ Are you thinking that F450 buyers don't register their trucks to haul above 14k lbs? Who's buying these trucks and what for? I'm sure if comercial buyers are hauling above 14k they're registering their trucks to haul above 14k. Come to think of it I actually only know of one F450 pickup owner. I've got a nephew that bought one to haul his ego around with. Is the F450 an F350 with the wide track front axle? Is it anymore capable than the F350?

4x4ord wrote:

Edit: and why is the gvwr limit for both 3500 series and 4500 series set a 14000 lbs?

Simply because of the registration and insurance headaches would impact sales. I'm sure they've considered it, done their sales-projections both ways, and determined the 14k GVWR version would sell more.

As for selling a sub 14k "option" on an otherwise heavier rated truck.. It becomes a little more difficult across this weight-class break, because then they'd have to certify it as a complete vehicle in both weight classes. Doing this at the class 2/3 break is easier because they are already compliant at both classes. But above 14k GVWR, you have two headaches: 1) Greenhouse-gas-limits compliance rather than CAFE and 2) Dyno certification for the motor, which results in a lower advertised numbers even though the output is actually the same. But the lower advertised numbers are sure to confuse some buyers and point them towards the "higher power" class 3 variant, resulting even even more lost sales.

^^^ Thanks Roy. I trust you know what you're talking about, however, I don't really get it. Why wouldn't Ford just skip building a 4500 series pickup, build a 5500 series pickup instead and they could set it up to have a greater payload than the f350. Then they could advertise a meaningful number? Then what about the 12400 gvwr number set for the 3500 srw? Does some government guy say we need a special subclass for the 3500 series pickup. The short box needs to be limited to 11500? Why? Anyway, it sounds like you would agree with what others have suggested... loading to the axle rating of a truck is loading to within the design limits of the truck. I think BC is the only jurisdiction in Canada and the US that uses gvwr numbers to set legal weight limits for trucks. And even in BC it's extremely unlikely that an RVer such as Cummins would ever be weighed and ticketed for being over his gvwr. Maybe an unmodified 2500 pulling an 18,000 lb tandem axle rv would have something to worry about if his headlights are pointing at the moon.

Edit: and why is the gvwr limit for both 3500 series and 4500 series set a 14000 lbs?