F450 vs F350 SRW payload

noteven wrote:
What Grit said^.

Wide track steer axle & front leaf springs? 19.5 moccasins available...

Also does the 450 pickup have straight SAE 34” wide frame rails back of cab?

Kind of a “derated” F550 available as a pickup (complete vehicle) that flies under the “commercial vehicle” flag down at the dmv and insurance office?

My F350 chassis cab pops up as “commercial” on the computers....

Wide track front axle and COIL springs.

The frame rails behind the cab on the F450 pickup are NOT the straight, flat, and narrower frame rails of the cab and chassis. The F450 pickup frame is designed for a pickup bed.

That’s why I like the F450 pickup. I think my TC looks better sitting IN a pickup bed vs ON a flatbed, plus I have no need for a flatbed. I also (after giving it considerable serious thought) don’t want any cab and chassis truck with a pickup bed installed. That forces too many things I don’t want, and limits trim levels available.

This may sound like heresy to some, but I don’t agree with the old saying of “You can never have too much truck”. Actually you can. I would rather haul my camper on an “overloaded” (wink, wink) F450 pickup than an F550 that is sprung to carry 2-3 times as much weight. Lightly loading a heavy truck like that is what ends up making a Link air ride system look good.

:):)

Depending on jurisdiction, anything over 10,000 gvw be it door placarded or paper paid for license can be construed as commercial. Hence a 35 series being listed as commercial

Marty

What Grit said^.

Wide track steer axle & front leaf springs? 19.5 moccasins available...

Also does the 450 pickup have straight SAE 34” wide frame rails back of cab?

Kind of a “derated” F550 available as a pickup (complete vehicle) that flies under the “commercial vehicle” flag down at the dmv and insurance office?

My F350 chassis cab pops up as “commercial” on the computers....

So, cause I kinda nerd out on this stuff, I read the 2020 specs as well and gleaned that the 450 pickup is a wide track 350 with bigger brakes, 19.5s, deeper gearing option and a heavier front axle rating on ford paper with the same rear axle rating on ford Specs.
But the M300 in the 450 has larger shafts, more splines and "may" be in the 16klb category vs the lighter duty M300 in the F350s which are 11,500lb rated.
You don't see the "big" S110 axle in the 450 p/u, becasue the newer M 300 axles are heavier duty already than the old 1 ton axles. Suspect the same for the front axle but didn't read up on it.
Ford basically built a wolf (class 4) in sheeps (class 3) clothing.
Rest of the drivetrain, rear springs and frame are the same as 350 which is much improved over the old super dutys.
The lesser payload of the 450 is only about the difference in the additional weight of the wheels maybe?
So the question, why not offer a billy bad@ss 450 pickup with an even heavier rear axle? Answer, because how much more than 15-16k could you possibly need in a pickup...

It seems to fil a niche and pulls some sales based partly on "marketing" and partly on the function of a, realistically, upgraded 350.
Hot shotters, big RV pullers/haulers and guys that gotta have the baddest cowboy Cadillac, this is your truck. Stays in the class 3 designation which saves some hassles with reg, insurance and driver requirements (not really on the driver req) and provides the most capability out of a "1 ton" on the market.

A big "pickup" like this is not targeted to most of the "commercial" market, as a pickup bed is just an expensive liability with less usefulness than a flatbed, waiting to get smashed, in most commercially used 1.5-2.5 ton trucks. And a straight frame is more easily customizable for the commercial market.
I say Ford did a very good job "creating" and "filling" a void in the market that costs them virtually zero additional tooling or expense.

"Otherwise as noted by many of that use our rigs commercial, or live in a jurisdiction that charges tonnage be a truck is used commercial or private like here in Washington state. Manufactures stickers be dammed! They mean nothing."

^^^ This. I had to jump through hoops both registering and insuring my F550 dump truck(a previous generation, so not germane to the 2020 discussion) when the primary use was going to be personal and not commercial.

4x, the other user IMHO that is better served by the 450, is someone that hauls a TC. Otherwise, assuming one is staying within manufactures warranty ratings, tfe 350 iss generally speaking, on par in pickup form.
Otherwise as noted by many of that use our rigs commercial, or live in a jurisdiction that charges tonnage be a truck is used commercial or private like here in Washington state. Manufactures stickers be dammed! They mean nothing.

Marty

It's simply a numbers game I have been accused of VIOLATING several times.

My GVWR is 14k

My "unloaded" front axle weight is around 5,250#

My loaded SAE rated RAW is around .........9,750#

So lets do sum math, add em up ..............15,000#

How can I have a FACTORY SAE rated rear axle weight and NOT exceed the magical 14k number?????

Even tho I show in black in white there are many that think I am breaking some sacred weight law by exceeding that Holy number of 14k. They say I will be sued in civil court, oh my!

So anyone who has a God given brain and actually uses it can deduct from these FACTS that is's simply a numbers game and to play it all you need to do is have enough tonnage to cover the weight pressing down on your 6 tires.

Class Dismissed :B

I priced out a platinum f450 and a platinum f350 drw diesel and the difference is $2500. The tires are very similar in height on the two trucks .... the f450 is about one half inch taller and three quarters of an inch narrower. Before this thread I actually thought the f450 was supposed to be in a class of its own but in the end I came to realize that there certainly are people in the market for an f350 drw that should consider the F450. In my mind the biggest drawback of the F450 is the 4.30 axle ratio and the biggest advantage is the wide track front axle. The bigger brakes of the f450 could also be a factor for those towing heavy trailers.

As far as GVWR numbers are concerned on the pickup trucks it seems as though they are not set by the manufacturers and therefore do not reflect much in the way of design limits. The truck manufacturers' axle ratings take into account the suspension and give a more accurate measure of a truck's weight carrying capacity.

Why truck manufacturers bother advertising payload capacity is beyond me. I guess boasting greatest payload beats be accused of being the lightest built truck in its class.

carringb wrote:


I'll post this link again... These are the Full 2019 SuperDuty Specifications. If you take the time to read them, you'll see the F450 has an entirely different front axle, heavier rear axle internals, and bigger braking system all around. When Ford switched to the aluminum body, the frame did become common with the F450 once again, but it's all around stiffer than the previous generation. Plus the wide-track front axle and 19.5" wheels.

Also, one more bonus with the F450... You can get a eLocker with 4.30 gears, but not with 4.10 gears as that ratio only gets LS as an opion. So if you must have an eLocker, on the F350 you are limited to 3.55 gears which is good for 36k combined vs 41k+ for the F450/4.30 gears.

These are relatively small differences, but enough to matter for some folks, and it's nice to have the option. It may not be for you. That's fine. Don't buy one then.

It comes down to I think if they are going to build a truck more capable than the f350 dually then give it the springs and ratings so it can be used by those who need a truck more capable than an f350 dually. If there co.es a day I'm looking for a dually I might look at an f450 but more than likely I'll never want a lower speed axle than the 3.55.

4x4ord wrote:

Edit: and why is the gvwr limit for both 3500 series and 4500 series set a 14000 lbs?

Class 3: This class of truck has a GVWR of 10,001–14,000 pounds or 4,536–6,350 kilograms.

Class 4: This class of truck has a GVWR of 14,001–16,000 pounds or 6,351–7,257 kilograms.

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