GMC vs Nissan diesel

Otrfun, seriously you can stop explaining. I admitted I was just trolling and really yes I understand. I never liked Ford that's why I'm ragging on the F250. That sticker made my week though!

The 3/4 ton trucks lack the overload spring of the 1 ton srw as well as a 3" block to lift the back of the truck up a bit. With Ford you can buy a 1 ton srw with a no charge option of the 10,000 lb GVWR. This option consists of a different door sticker (10,000 GVWR sticker instead of 11500 or whatever the regular one ton is).

demiles wrote:
. . . reading the Ford 2017 towing guide it clearly states not to exceed GVWR or RAWR. So that 8200lb F250 with a GVWR of 10000 is limited by a 1800 payload which limits what tongue weight it can handle that limits the weight of the trailer. That big rear differential and axles are wasted weight that can't be used to they're potential according to the ratings. This truely shows how screwed up the HD truck market is right now

demiles wrote:
The Platinum Reserve XD does indeed have a lower payload than my SV and yes you need more truck than the Nissan because you follow the numbers. But that doesn't apply to the Ford F-250 diesel, it's got a special engineered spec that says you can double the payload and still be okay.

The HD market is far from screwed up. I assure you, no "special engineering spec" is required. Quite the opposite.

I'm sorry, demiles, but you give me the impression you do not understand what's behind the "artificial" 10,000 lb. GVWR used on the Big 3, 3/4-ton trucks. Hey, not to worry. I was in your shoes about a year ago. It took some digging and a bit of head-scratchin' to finally comprehend the issue.

I realize you've been comparing the XD specs with the Ford 250. FWIW, the specs and capabilities for all the Big 3 trucks are very similar. They have to be in order to be competitive. I'm much more familar with Ram's specs and capabilities, so I've taken the liberty of using Ram trucks to make my point.

First off, don't you find it odd that nearly every late model, Big 3, 3/4-ton truck has a GVWR of 10,000 lbs. or less? Ever wondered why? Is it because the Big 3 lack the technology to make a 3/4-ton truck with more than a 10,000 lb. GVWR? Highly doubt that--lol!

A GVWR of 10,001 lbs. and higher requires special licensing and registration in some situations. The 10,000 lb. and under GVWR fills a "legal" need in terms of less stringent licensing and registration. The current 10,000 lb. GVWR, 3/4-ton truck was born to meet this consumer need by slightly derating the rear suspension of a 1-ton SRW truck. Why did they do this? Because the Big 3 were able to R&D two complete lines of truck for basically the price of one---a win-win for the manufacturer and consumer. If the Big 3 could have gotten away with it, I'm sure they would have preferred to have only changed the badging (vs. the badging and the rear suspension).

In any case, the ONLY difference between a 3/4-ton diesel and 1-ton SRW diesel (at least for Ram), is the rear suspension itself, and the chrome 2500/3500 badging stuck to the door. Ninety-eight (98) percent of the frame design, 100 percent of the differential's internals, the 8-bolt (full-floating) axles, hubs, bearings, tires, engine, tranny, front suspension, brakes,---the entire drivetrain are EXACTLY the same on each line of equivalently optioned truck. A quick part numbers check can quickly substantiate this.

I mentioned this in my previous posts, but hopefully it'll make more sense now. By looking at the RAWR rating for the 3/4-ton and the 1-ton SRW Ram trucks, it's obvious the 3/4-ton truck's rear suspension was only derated 500 lbs. (vs. the 1-ton SRW). Why do I say this? Because the 3/4-ton truck has a 6,500 lb. RAWR (with 18-20" wheels) vs. the 1-ton SRW's, 7,000 lbs. RAWR. The FAWR is the same for both trucks, 6,000 lbs. And to further make my point, the tow capacity for the 3/4-ton and 1-ton SRW Ram trucks are nearly the same (with minor variances) proving the drivetrain and frame have the same strength and capability; otherwise, they would be rated differently.

So . . . the ONLY reason the "on-the-record", legal payload rating for the 3/4-ton trucks are so low is because the empty weight of a truck MUST be subtracted from the GVWR to determine the legal payload rating. Since the GVWR is "artificially" low to meet the 10,000 lb. and under GVWR licensing and registration requirements, it goes without saying the payload rating is also "artificially" low. For those who purchase a 3/4-ton truck this is a classic case of getting more than you bargained or paid for!

IdaD wrote:

demiles wrote:
The Platinum Reserve XD does indeed have a lower payload than my SV and yes you need more truck than the Nissan because you follow the numbers. But that doesn't apply to the Ford F-250 diesel, it's got a special engineered spec that says you can double the payload and still be okay.

There's no magic to it - you just don't seem to understand why the payload ratings are what the are. A 3/4 ton GVWR is restricted to the class 2 max GVWR of 10k lbs - the high curb weight of a diesel truck and simple math limit the payload rating. The tow, axle and tire ratings are typically very close to or the same as the 1 ton SRW equivalent truck. The XD is a different animal. This isn't a dig at your truck, there's just more to this stuff than the payload sticker on your door.

I understand every concept that's been explained here, I've been around towing for a long time. But seeing that sticker from the all mighty F250 diesel with such dismal numbers makes me want troll. Its funny because it's being preached constantly on these forums to go by the numbers (GVWR) and don't exceed them yet people defend this overweight pig of a 2b class truck to no end. Ford should just eliminate the F250 completely or build a diesel powered truck with 3k payload and GVWR of 10k. I know the F250 is practically a derated F350 and I see them pulling 38ft plus 5th wheels and toy haulers. I also pull up behind them and see the center of the rear differential fried to a crisp. I'll think of that sticker every time I see one and laugh. I'll be back to normal in afew days, maybe!

demiles wrote:
The Platinum Reserve XD does indeed have a lower payload than my SV and yes you need more truck than the Nissan because you follow the numbers. But that doesn't apply to the Ford F-250 diesel, it's got a special engineered spec that says you can double the payload and still be okay.

There's no magic to it - you just don't seem to understand why the payload ratings are what the are. A 3/4 ton GVWR is restricted to the class 2 max GVWR of 10k lbs - the high curb weight of a diesel truck and simple math limit the payload rating. The tow, axle and tire ratings are typically very close to or the same as the 1 ton SRW equivalent truck. The XD is a different animal. This isn't a dig at your truck, there's just more to this stuff than the payload sticker on your door.

mkirsch wrote:

proxim2020 wrote:

Greene728 wrote:

GeoBoy wrote:
I would go with with the GM truck but in the form of a 1 ton truck.

For pulling a 30ft TT? Why?
And respectfully, don't give me the "may get a bigger rig someday" scenario. Sure, it may happen. But cross that bridge when you get to it. I'm a SRW 1 ton guy myself so I totally get it. I just don't understand the mindset of folks who give out info such as this when the OP made his plans very clear.

Price wise, there's usually not that much of a spread between a 3/4 ton and a 1 ton. Between the two GMs it's $1,000 on paper. Depending on the deal you get, that gap can be non existent. You get a whole lot more capacity for little money. That's why some argue skipping over the 3/4 tons. That extra capacity might come in handy, you know ... if the OP ends up getting a bigger rig one day lol.

That's all well and good, but find a GM 3500 SRW within 100 miles of me. From dozens of dealers, there's ONE, and it's a full crew cab long bed truck with every option known to man, which I wouldn't want, ever.

What the heck does that have to do with my comment? I was saying option for option there's not going to be much of a difference between two trucks. I'm not some car broker service. If you can't find the truck you're looking for in your narrow search area then go to a dealer and have them transfer or order one the way you want it.

The soil was pretty dry and it was loaded with a Bobcat with a 1/2 yd bucket, 4 even buckets.

demiles wrote:
Okay I was trolling, sorry! I know the numbers game the mfg's have to play. You say 3500lbs in the back? Yep did that a couple weekends ago, put 2 yds of top soil in the bed. Yes it dropped probably 3 inches but was no where near the bump stop.. I was praying the tailgate was going to hold up though because it was close to full.
Just as you believe the F250 is more truck than the ratings show many believe the same thing about the XD. There are many towing 5th wheels and toy haulers taking them over the GVWR and claim it does so with ease. I won't make that claim since I'm within the ratings with my trailer. The XD rear differential is the same one used in the NV3500 van rated at 5900lbs, only difference is the 6 vs 8 lug flanges on the axle.
What really surprises me is the weight of the F250 KR CC diesel, at over 8200lbs according to the weigh ticket I saw. That's crazy! That's 1300 Lbs more than my XD. I really thought Ford put this truck on a serious diet for 2017.

No way did you have 2 yards of top soil in your bed. My local yard sells it by the ton. One bucket load is about a ton, according to their scales. I can only haul one bucket which fills the bed completely. If you were told you had two yards, it was either peat moss or you were cheated.

ktmrfs wrote:

atwowheelguy wrote:
Check that payload on that Titan. You may find that it is not sufficient to carry the tongue weight of a 30' camper. This one has a payload of 1488 lbs.

I've got a 35 ft trailer, tongue weight, 1400-1600lbs depending on how much water is in the tank. Add it all up, and I am usually right at the 10,000GVWR on my 2500cc4xr4 duramax.

Me thinks a 3/4 ton or 1 ton SRW is much more appropriate

The Platinum Reserve XD does indeed have a lower payload than my SV and yes you need more truck than the Nissan because you follow the numbers. But that doesn't apply to the Ford F-250 diesel, it's got a special engineered spec that says you can double the payload and still be okay.