Inverters Why ??

trail-explorer wrote:

JCR-1 wrote:
Why not use 12 volts for your camper. 12v items are more and more available today . Microwaves, a/c , will require a generator /or shore power anyway. TV 's are 12 volt, lighting and most everything else is either rechargeable or battery powered . Nice to have a small portable inverter(12v : 120v) on board for occasional need but wiring in a large capacity inverter is unnecessary for most camping requirements. Inverters are not efficient so why not just use a 12 volt appliances ??

With an onboard built in inverter, you can also have an intelligent 3 stage charger instead of a "dumb" charger (converter) that RV manufacturers install.

Actually, that is not true.

The "converter/dumb charger" as you call it now days ARE MULTI STAGE "smart" chargers. Since around the 1990s RV converters changed over from the old school "linear" transformer/diode based unregulated chargers to switching supplies which offers more than one voltage stage.

Granted the ones that the RV manufacturers choose is often low quality but they are non the less multi stage charging.

You are talking about a "converter/inverter" which combines 120V to 12V charging with a 12V to 120V inverter in a single box.

Not all RVs are equipped with a converter/inverter and it is not necessary to install one to gain multi stage charging.

You CAN simply add an inverter to your existing RV if you want 120V.

Several downsides to the all in box, if one part fails the unit is toast.. IE the converter part fails you are faced with replacing a working inverter if you want to stay with a combo unit.. Makes for an expensive replacement.

They COST MORE than a separate converter and inverter.

JCR-1 wrote:
Why not use 12 volts for your camper. 12v items are more and more available today . Microwaves, a/c , will require a generator /or shore power anyway. TV 's are 12 volt, lighting and most everything else is either rechargeable or battery powered . Nice to have a small portable inverter(12v : 120v) on board for occasional need but wiring in a large capacity inverter is unnecessary for most camping requirements. Inverters are not efficient so why not just use a 12 volt appliances ??

With an onboard built in inverter, you can also have an intelligent 3 stage charger instead of a "dumb" charger (converter) that RV manufacturers install.

i would like to see a list of the rv's that come with a 12v outlet in the kitchen or bathroom capable of supplying the 15 amp draw of some of the 12v appliances. and for most rv's they would be tough to add. they are not wired to support high draw 12v appliances. my rv did not come with any 12v outlets at all.

Needs are not the same as desires.

Everything I need will fit into a 40 pound backpack. Everything else is desires.

JCR-1 wrote:
Many goofy comments..

#1 They make 12 volt coffee makers.

#2 12v hair dryers,

#3 12 volt toasters,

#4 and 12 volt compressor refrigerator /freezers And that's the reason most want inverters for these items..

#5 If you need the 60 inch 4k TV why not go to a motel..Its cheaper.?If you need a household refrigerator then its not camping its living in the thing and then why not be on electric.

#6 CPAP ?? a small plug inverter will suffice.

#7 Charging lap tops ?/ 12 volt adapters are available.

#8 Phones same thing

#9 If you are going to watch a big screen TV why camp at all. Because you can.. ??? Duh..

Broke your comments up and added numbers to easily address your list of complaints..

#1 12V coffee makers are expensive, make small brew at one time, often one or two cup only, horribly slow and inefficient.

12V COFFEE MAKER EXAMPLE

"Brews 16 ounces of coffee in under 15 minutes, has water level meter and 7-feet cord 15 ampere fuse/13 amperes/156 watt current draw

This 12-volt quick cup coffee maker comes with a 16 ounce stainless steel travel mug that brews coffee in less than 15 minutes directly into the mug. Perfect for on-the-go lifestyle since no filters are required and it supports a Stop-Drip Interrupt system that prevents drips and mess when the mug is removed. Ease of use is supported by a 7-feet cord length, water level meter and mounting bracket if you choose to mount in your vehicle. Brews that perfect cup of your coffee at your convenience. "

156W is pretty paltry for brewing, even the smaller two cup 120V units WILL draw 900W at 120V..

And at 15 minutes to brew, well you can build a fire and brew via old fashion coffee pot much faster.

900W at 12V is 75A which would require wiring with 4 ga wire and extremely heavy duty and expensive plugs and receptacles.


#2 12V hair dryer
12V HAIR DRYER

"Because the hair dryer is 12V power supply, so it is a small power hair dryer, its power is only 216W."


216W for a hair dryer will take forever to dry even damp hair taking a half hr to even 1 hr to dry, a good home 120V hair dryer is available up to 1800W..

1800W at 12V would be 150A!!! Yeah you would need 4 ga, perhaps closer to 3ga wire!!

#3 12V toaster oven (couldn't find any 12V bread toasters)

12V TOASTER OVEN

"Requires 12 to 14V DC, 120 watts"

Laughable to say the least, imagine trying to toast or cook a meal with two "Easy Bake" ovens..

I could not imagine attempting to cook with that low of wattage any type of meats, not enough heat for too long of cooking time = a very potentially deadly meal!!

A REAL 120V bread toaster draws about 850W and real 120V toaster ovens can draw upwards of 1800W..

#4 12V crock pot/slow cooker

HERE

"8amp, 96 watts"

96 Watts? surely you jest..

Real 120V crock pots/slow cooker draw a max of 250W on high and typically food is ready in about 4 hrs..

Even on low they draw 180W with food typically ready to eat in 6-8hrs

Typically with most meat you NEED to get the internal temperature up to 145 F min in 4 hrs or less, 96W is not going to get there.. Failure to get the IT to safe temp in 4 hrs is potentially risking your life..

#4 12V compressor fridge

Yes, they do make them, but have you priced them?

They are not cheap.

Have you looked at the size and availability?

They are typically used in extremely SMALL fridges (1-2 cu ft) and perhaps maybe as large as 4 cu ft if you want to pay as much for the fridge as you paid for the RV..

They are not found in stores and RV dealers don't stock them..

120V home fridges can be found in sizes under 1 cu ft all the way up to 30 cu ft and priced more reasonable prices from $80 - $300 for 1 cu ft to 10 cu ft.

Can be found ANYWHERE!

#5 12V TV, yeah, there are FEW LIMITED models of small 12V TVs 14" or so, they tend to cost MORE that 120V counterparts. The problem is very few manufacturers make them and the quality of them is poor at best. Typically sold at truck stops which doesn't say much for quality or price.

120V TVs are available in any size range you wish and the quality of them is far better, and you can once again buy a 120V TV ANYWHERE

#6 CPAP

There ARE 12V CPAP units available, but some features like adding moisture may not be available..

It IS a "Medical device" and sometimes one just NEEDS the 120V version.

#7 Laptops and phones

Yeah, this one I DO agree on, this one just plain makes sense although laptop automotive power adapters can be pretty pricey and sometimes no direct OEM version is available so you will have to resort to an after market universal version and the quality may not be as good.. Not sure if I would want to take chances on a cheap aftermarket power supply to power a $500-$800 laptop though..

#8 Phones, yeah that is a more recent thing with most manufacturers deciding to standardize to 5V USB standards, however, some like Motorola and Apple like to play games with charging cords..

#9 I don't take a "big screen", I do take as SMALL of a TV I could find that has good quality screen with decent viewing angle.. Happens to be 24" wide screen, I had tried smaller LCDs in the past but seems like in the smaller screens the viewing angle is terrible..

Had a 14" screen but the ONLY way you could watch it was if you were the only person and you were SQUARE to the set, if you moved even a couple of inches the color was distorted.

Inverters actually are a way to get around a lot of 12V limitations..

JCR-1 wrote:
Many goofy comments.. They make 12 volt coffee makers. 12v hair dryers, 12 volt toasters, and 12 volt compressor refrigerator /freezers And that's the reason most want inverters for these items.. If you need the 60 inch 4k TV why not go to a motel..Its cheaper.?If you need a household refrigerator then its not camping its living in the thing and then why not be on electric. CPAP ?? a small plug inverter will suffice. Charging lap tops ?/ 12 volt adapters are available. Phones same thing
If you are going to watch a big screen TV why camp at all. Because you can.. ??? Duh..

Much of what you say is true. But camping means different things to different people. If you had grandchildren, you would know they like their movies, etc!

As to going to a motel because it's cheaper; no thanks. We've had our share of filthy, over-priced motel rooms. The RV is an extension of your home. You know if it's clean or dirty.

JCR-1 wrote:
Why not use 12 volts for your camper. 12v items are more and more available today . Microwaves, a/c , will require a generator /or shore power anyway. TV 's are 12 volt, lighting and most everything else is either rechargeable or battery powered . Nice to have a small portable inverter(12v : 120v) on board for occasional need but wiring in a large capacity inverter is unnecessary for most camping requirements. Inverters are not efficient so why not just use a 12 volt appliances ??

Not everything is 12 volt. When you buy your trailer, often the flatscreen TVs are 120v and bluray players for movies are 120v.
Satellite receivers are 120v.

I have a small 300w inverter just for these devices so I can run them in "quiet hours" at campgrounds when no generators are allowed. Love it, works great, and the only regret I have is that I did not do it 10 years earlier.

JCR-1 seems to enjoy battling with windmills. It is extremely naive to believe that any heat producing device in 12vdc is as good as the 120vac device.

It isn't unusual for new members to come on here being naive about why everyone doesn't do things they same as themselves. JCR-1 is not a new member although this thread appears that way.

JCR-1 wrote:
Of course there are some on here that have to justify their actions so they make snide remarks. Talking options and pros and cons but many geniuses here are smart asses and need some lessons taught.They have big mouths behind a computer screen.

Looking in the mirror I see. :W

BTW I have never read a post where someone declares anyone should randomly add an inverter. And all threads where someone wants to run a microwave or coffee maker with battery power are sprinkled with posts on cooking and coffee should be made with propane and how to do it. So really no one is pushing an inverter on anyone... especially a large inverter.

And still if someone wants an inverter... they are certainly free to install what they like. That is what makes life fun for most of us.