Negotiating TT price - adding a TT to the fleet.
Hi All.
I guess this will be long... Sorry, I can be chatty sometimes...
I have been considering adding to the fleet for a few years, and now getting ready to pull the trigger. I have a PUP with a boat loader for my aluminum boat which gets me wherever I want to go in terms of terrain, so I can get well away from the crowds, setup off grade, etc. It does take time to setup, including prep where I have to open it pre trip, so it has hindered many quick weekend trips, or even long trips where facilities would be nice. So, I have been looking to expand and while you will never get a TT where I go with the PUP, I still plan on doing the boondocking thing on the endless primitive roads here is AZ. I will clearly visit more campgrounds, including the full hookup thing as well, but I don't want to be limited and desire something that can handle fairly rough dirt roads.
This summer I decided to do a test run on a TT and rented a 2016 Jayco 23MBH for 10 days in Jackson and Yellowstone. I did the full hookup thing, as well as boondocking. My 2015 Tundra towed it beautifully and it did not feel much different than my boat in terms of length. I have a TRD Pro, so even with the equalizer, I did see some dip and will invest in air bags. But, this TT passed all my tests with flying colors and where I understand it will limit my true backcountry sites, I won't be limited to just pavement or nice graded gravel roads either.
I have narrowed my choices down to 2 TT's which are both at the top of my limit in 23' model length (for navigability). The first is the Jayco Jay Feather 23BHM, and the second is the Outdoors RV Black Rock 23BKS with the off road package. BTW, we also have two kids, so the bunk beds are perfect as well and the kids love them.
For the Jayco, both my wife and I like the floor plan. I don't know the reason, but they changed it a bit from the 23MBH I rented with a few items being the orientation of the toilet, no sunroof in the living area, and lack of windows on the side of the slide out. Storage is very limited on this, especially if I integrate the boat, or add an inflatable, but it is doable. She likes this better than the Outdoors RV because the vanity is outside the bathroom, and the Murphy bed allows extra usable space up or down. The negative for me other than the small items I mentioned is the smaller water tanks, and it is not as tough as the Outdoors RV, including the beefed up suspension, frame and build.
The Outdoors RV while I have not met one in person yet, appears to be a much stronger build with the off road suspension, frame and wall construction. The cabinets are better as well with pocket holes rather than staples. (though I don't know if that means the cabinet frames, or boxes themselves, so I will need to verify when I see them in person). I like the floor plan and while the bed is permanent, the wall will likely remove that "great room" type feel my wife likes. I think I like the materials are better, but we will see, when I "see" it in person. The wife does not like the floorplan as much as the Jayco, with the vanity being a big part of that. For me though, this thing adds many bonus points because of it's build. The frame is stronger, suspension allows for more travel with shocks, better ratings on the tires, larger tanks, better insulation, storage, etc. Again without seeing it, this is my favorite based on its capabilities off the beaten path, though I don't like that it is almost a foot taller. If I do consider designing a boat loader for my aluminum like I did on my PUP, that extra height might be an issue. I may consider a nice inflatable though, which reminds me there is much more storage on the Outdoors RV. This is a little heavier than the Jayco, but both are within my tow limits on the Tundra including payload of passengers, tongue weight, etc.
Anyway, my real question here is on how to negotiate price on these. In the last 25 years, I have only paid above invoice for two vehicles being an M3, and my TRD Pro. Both were highly sought after and I had the M3 built as a surprise Xmas gift for my wife, so there was not as much wiggle room as normal. Regardless, in danger of retaining my modesty, I have mastered negotiations on vehicles where I always get a very good deal. At the same time, invoice pricing, holdback and other info is readily available on the internet, so it's just a matter of brining in the laptop with all data gathered, supportin documentation printed, and letting the dealership know if they won't give me the price I know they can, I will go to another dealer. Nowadays I have moved onto fleet sales as that is much easier. Anyway, this is a little different being it's a camper and my last experience was over 15 years ago. The Jayco has just a few dealers in my state, and the Outdoors RV just one. So, I lose a little power there. I may increase it a bit because even if I decide the Outdoors RV, they will think they are pitted against the Jayco with the lower price point, and of course I won't really care about the stronger components of the Outdoors RV. :) Just like a car, they will think I can easily do without it...
That said, what are you guys seeing on negotiations? Where does the power come from? Is there accurate invoice pricing available? We are at the end of model year here, so that will help, but I would like a better grip than that...
Thanks all.
I guess this will be long... Sorry, I can be chatty sometimes...
I have been considering adding to the fleet for a few years, and now getting ready to pull the trigger. I have a PUP with a boat loader for my aluminum boat which gets me wherever I want to go in terms of terrain, so I can get well away from the crowds, setup off grade, etc. It does take time to setup, including prep where I have to open it pre trip, so it has hindered many quick weekend trips, or even long trips where facilities would be nice. So, I have been looking to expand and while you will never get a TT where I go with the PUP, I still plan on doing the boondocking thing on the endless primitive roads here is AZ. I will clearly visit more campgrounds, including the full hookup thing as well, but I don't want to be limited and desire something that can handle fairly rough dirt roads.
This summer I decided to do a test run on a TT and rented a 2016 Jayco 23MBH for 10 days in Jackson and Yellowstone. I did the full hookup thing, as well as boondocking. My 2015 Tundra towed it beautifully and it did not feel much different than my boat in terms of length. I have a TRD Pro, so even with the equalizer, I did see some dip and will invest in air bags. But, this TT passed all my tests with flying colors and where I understand it will limit my true backcountry sites, I won't be limited to just pavement or nice graded gravel roads either.
I have narrowed my choices down to 2 TT's which are both at the top of my limit in 23' model length (for navigability). The first is the Jayco Jay Feather 23BHM, and the second is the Outdoors RV Black Rock 23BKS with the off road package. BTW, we also have two kids, so the bunk beds are perfect as well and the kids love them.
For the Jayco, both my wife and I like the floor plan. I don't know the reason, but they changed it a bit from the 23MBH I rented with a few items being the orientation of the toilet, no sunroof in the living area, and lack of windows on the side of the slide out. Storage is very limited on this, especially if I integrate the boat, or add an inflatable, but it is doable. She likes this better than the Outdoors RV because the vanity is outside the bathroom, and the Murphy bed allows extra usable space up or down. The negative for me other than the small items I mentioned is the smaller water tanks, and it is not as tough as the Outdoors RV, including the beefed up suspension, frame and build.
The Outdoors RV while I have not met one in person yet, appears to be a much stronger build with the off road suspension, frame and wall construction. The cabinets are better as well with pocket holes rather than staples. (though I don't know if that means the cabinet frames, or boxes themselves, so I will need to verify when I see them in person). I like the floor plan and while the bed is permanent, the wall will likely remove that "great room" type feel my wife likes. I think I like the materials are better, but we will see, when I "see" it in person. The wife does not like the floorplan as much as the Jayco, with the vanity being a big part of that. For me though, this thing adds many bonus points because of it's build. The frame is stronger, suspension allows for more travel with shocks, better ratings on the tires, larger tanks, better insulation, storage, etc. Again without seeing it, this is my favorite based on its capabilities off the beaten path, though I don't like that it is almost a foot taller. If I do consider designing a boat loader for my aluminum like I did on my PUP, that extra height might be an issue. I may consider a nice inflatable though, which reminds me there is much more storage on the Outdoors RV. This is a little heavier than the Jayco, but both are within my tow limits on the Tundra including payload of passengers, tongue weight, etc.
Anyway, my real question here is on how to negotiate price on these. In the last 25 years, I have only paid above invoice for two vehicles being an M3, and my TRD Pro. Both were highly sought after and I had the M3 built as a surprise Xmas gift for my wife, so there was not as much wiggle room as normal. Regardless, in danger of retaining my modesty, I have mastered negotiations on vehicles where I always get a very good deal. At the same time, invoice pricing, holdback and other info is readily available on the internet, so it's just a matter of brining in the laptop with all data gathered, supportin documentation printed, and letting the dealership know if they won't give me the price I know they can, I will go to another dealer. Nowadays I have moved onto fleet sales as that is much easier. Anyway, this is a little different being it's a camper and my last experience was over 15 years ago. The Jayco has just a few dealers in my state, and the Outdoors RV just one. So, I lose a little power there. I may increase it a bit because even if I decide the Outdoors RV, they will think they are pitted against the Jayco with the lower price point, and of course I won't really care about the stronger components of the Outdoors RV. :) Just like a car, they will think I can easily do without it...
That said, what are you guys seeing on negotiations? Where does the power come from? Is there accurate invoice pricing available? We are at the end of model year here, so that will help, but I would like a better grip than that...
Thanks all.
