New to the TT world

ChrispyjCSLT22 wrote:

This is alot of perspective to consider, and I'm appreciative of it, but I'm trying to avoid getting/using a generator and lugging around gas cans..

I get what you say about run time but would running the AC on low would help?

No, low only affects the fan speed, the fan compared to the compressor draws a smaller portion of the power used.

Additionally, running the fan on low speed in high humidity areas is a recipe for frost/freeze buildup on the A/C coils which leads to restricting your A/Cs cooling effect wasting energy in the end.

Outdoor temps and humidity levels can and does affect not only the cooling performance but also how much power is drawn by the A/C. The higher the temp the higher the current draw will be. The higher the humidity level, the longer the compressor has to run to make the humidity levels drop inside to make you feel comfortable.

Running an A/C for short bursts of time can often backfire and use more energy than if you just allowed it to run continuously but set the T stat up a degree or two.

The compressor is the energy hog, absolutely nothing can change that.

Like I mentioned, you might perhaps get an half hr to one hr of A/C, but the issue becomes just how much energy will you use above that every day and just how much energy you can harvest in the 5 peak sun hrs per day.. Just because it is daylight, it doesn't mean the solar panels are charging.. They have to be illuminated with enough light to generate enough voltage above the battery voltage in order to charge the battery.. But it can take a good bit of voltage above the battery to get maximum possible charging.

The system is undersized in all directions, solar and battery if you want more than a hr of A/C per 24hrs..

As far as lugging around gas cans goes, it makes it sound like you really want to run the A/C longer than a hour..

Typically most gens in 3.5Kw size will use .5 gallon per hr (yes, that is a half gallon) or a bit less, most gens the tanks are sized to allow run times for about 10-12hrs at half load.

So unless you were planning to run the gen 24/7 you may not need to deal with a bunch of gas cans..

Lower wattage gens often will use less fuel per hr and the fuel tanks are also typically sized for 10-12hrs run time but there is a fine line on gen sizes that you have to watch, too low of wattage and it won't start and run a A/C reliably.

Solar and batteries have improved, but it still takes a lot more of both plus money than the system built into the RVs you are looking for.

Back of the napkin math I did for another run A/C on battery and solar thread was 4,000W of solar, 9,600Ahr of battery for 24/7/365 A/C use. The system would cost $29,824, weigh 3,500 lbs with Lithium batteries.

The solar panels would require 320 sq ft of roof space (equivalent to a 40ft long RV 8ft wide) and batteries would need about 40 sq ft of storage space.

And that gets you enough battery capacity just for the A/C unit for operation of three days with no sun.. Doesn't include what you need for other camping needs..

I can buy a nice gen and a lot of fuel for $30K and it wouldn't weigh 3,500 lbs..

valhalla360 wrote:

ChrispyjCSLT22 wrote:
This is alot of perspective to consider, and I'm appreciative of it, but I'm trying to avoid getting/using a generator and lugging around gas cans..

I get what you say about run time but would running the AC on low would help?

Let's say you want to stay comfortable for an 8hr overnight:
- Running on high at 1500w with a 50% duty cycle means it's pulling 1500w for 4hr for a total of 6000w-hr consumed.
- If it has a low output (most RV air/con units don't, they just have a lower fan setting to keep it quieter) of 750w but for the same cooling, it's going to have a 100% duty cycle. 750w for 8hr is still 6000w-hr.

If it's hot and you want it cooled, there is no free lunch.

In the end, your effort to avoid a simple reliable generator will cost more, be more hassle and reduce the quality of your experience. If you don't want a generator and you want to boondock, realistically, you aren't going to have air/con without a huge, expensive aftermarket system.

Even with a 3KW inverter, 400ah lith batts and a 11K slow start AC with the settings on low?

PButler96 wrote:
"not that it matters any longer but the Mastervolt system is used in the NoBO for their unplugged package.. are you saying that isn't a good brand?"

Not at all. No Boundries is a Forest River brand and they, along with most other manufacturers, are well know for using the cheapest components and materials available. They're also known for mis matching components when it comes to solar systems and only providing enough capacity to make it look good on the website or in a brochure. Even when they use something that is supposedly a good product they'll do their best to booger up the installation. All one has to do is look at the wiring in just about every RV at the converter which looks like an explosion occurred at the wire factory.Another thing they're good at is entering into agreements with component suppliers where replacement parts or add one are overpriced and proprietary. A few examples are pre wiring for Zamp solar or Furrion backup cameras.

A little confused, I'm looking online and a Mastervolt 3KW inverter is like $1500.00+???

who would you recommend makes a better solar package than Mastervolt?

And as far as Travel Trailer Brand names, for a new 2022 to 2023 model do you have any recommendations other than a Forest River product?

ChrispyjCSLT22 wrote:
This is alot of perspective to consider, and I'm appreciative of it, but I'm trying to avoid getting/using a generator and lugging around gas cans..

I get what you say about run time but would running the AC on low would help?

Let's say you want to stay comfortable for an 8hr overnight:
- Running on high at 1500w with a 50% duty cycle means it's pulling 1500w for 4hr for a total of 6000w-hr consumed.
- If it has a low output (most RV air/con units don't, they just have a lower fan setting to keep it quieter) of 750w but for the same cooling, it's going to have a 100% duty cycle. 750w for 8hr is still 6000w-hr.

If it's hot and you want it cooled, there is no free lunch.

In the end, your effort to avoid a simple reliable generator will cost more, be more hassle and reduce the quality of your experience. If you don't want a generator and you want to boondock, realistically, you aren't going to have air/con without a huge, expensive aftermarket system.

"not that it matters any longer but the Mastervolt system is used in the NoBO for their unplugged package.. are you saying that isn't a good brand?"

Not at all. No Boundries is a Forest River brand and they, along with most other manufacturers, are well know for using the cheapest components and materials available. They're also known for mis matching components when it comes to solar systems and only providing enough capacity to make it look good on the website or in a brochure. Even when they use something that is supposedly a good product they'll do their best to booger up the installation. All one has to do is look at the wiring in just about every RV at the converter which looks like an explosion occurred at the wire factory.Another thing they're good at is entering into agreements with component suppliers where replacement parts or add one are overpriced and proprietary. A few examples are pre wiring for Zamp solar or Furrion backup cameras.

PButler96 wrote:

ChrispyjCSLT22 wrote:

PButler96 wrote:

Skibane wrote:
Both models are made by Forest River (mediocre build quality on a good day), and both models have slideouts (which add a lot of weight and mechanical complexity).

A few other brands to consider with better reputations for build quality:

Bigfoot
Casita
Escape
Scamp

If you're feeling spendy, also take a look at Oliver.

Spendy indeed. The OP said ready to buy in the next 6 months. I doubt any of those brands listed will be found new just sitting on a dealers lot and if they are you can bet it will be for top dollar. I would bet there are production waiting lists at all of them for ordering. They're few and far between on the used market also, and they're always priced out of sight. So unless the OP has lots of time and money, or is extremely lucky, I'd say those brands are not on his radar, nor are the prices.

They are not..

just fyi, here are the 2 I'm considering.. My budget is 35K or below.... I have a bike rally in Oct and want to sell my 2020 harley afterwards and that will give me atleast 4-6K to put down on a TT.

This one here is already equipped with the power pkg to run the AC off of the batts.

https://www.ganderrv.com/rvdetails/new-travel-trailer-rvs/2022-forest-river-flagstaff-e-pro-19fds-rear-bath-40k-CMO1863852


This one here I got a build and quote price of 39080.00

Your Price is $39080
New No Boundaries (NOBO) NB19.5 Travel Trailer
Equipment:
19 Series Package X
Curt Beast Mode Independent Suspension
No Boundaries Beast Mode
Interior Decor, Aspen Frost
J-Cradle Kayak Holder
Unplugged Package
Regards,
Your Friends At Couch's RV Nation

https://www.couchsrvnation.com/forest-river/build-and-price/193/1684

Listen to what folks have been telling you. The cheap solar **** that the manufacturers include is not going to run the AC for any length of time that is even remotely beneficial. It's all junk and nothing more than bling to sucker in people. If your ordering from the factory do not get any of it and save the money for a real system, but get ready to spend a few grand for it to do what you want it to do.

not that it matters any longer but the Mastervolt system is used in the NoBO for their unplugged package.. are you saying that isn't a good brand?

Gdetrailer wrote:

ChrispyjCSLT22 wrote:

valhalla360 wrote:
Imagine doing normal things like cooking, sleeping, showering, using the bathroom, etc...in each (imagine being stuck inside for a couple rainy days). Then let the layout you like better decide.

I wouldn't count on quality to be much different. All the appliances and fixtures tend to be universal among all the brands.

Also, not a chance would I count on the solar/battery package running the air/con. Sure it may start it up but it won't run it long enough to be worth the hassle. Solar/battery systems are for dry camping when you have minimal electrical needs. Air/Con is easily the highest power demand of any RV system.

My plan is to not run the AC overnight while sleeping but run it during the evening some and turning it off before going to sleep.. I also have a CPAP and its hard enough for me to sleep in the heat..

I do plan to RV park camp with full hookups, boondock and dry camp..

I just want the ability to run the ac some as running it overnight is unrealistic... I do appreciate your input

As I have pointed out, running the A/C for even 1 hr is "unrealistic".

The A/C in 1 hr will use almost HALF of the included battery capacity which leaves very little battery capacity for anything else..

You have to figure in that your fridge, water heater, furnace, lights along with stereo and LP detector are all connected to and draw from that battery even when they are "turned off"..

Fridge and water heater will have 12V control boards, those control boards USE 12V in order for the device to operate.

You "need" lighting", right?

Guess where that comes from?

Yep, the 12V battery..

Want to charge your phone, laptop, tablet or even run a TV?

Yep, that same 12V battery..

Want to take a shower, wash dishes, use the toilet?

Yep, the water pressure is supplied via a 12V pump which gets it's power from that same 12V battery.

So, it has solar panels on it, big deal, 570W is a drop in the bucket to handle running the A/C and charge the batteries and you get pretty much a max of 5 peak charging hrs every day provided you have no shade, you have no clouds and lots of sun during those peak hrs. Not to mention now you must park out in the open without the benefit of trees to shade your RV.

You have been sold a "bill of goods" in believing that 400Ahr of battery is going to run your A/C for very long..

Perhaps a 1/2 hr-1hr per day provided you have full sunlight every day and you use absolutely nothing in your RV.. But even then I suspect if you do you will run out of battery very quickly.

Can it be done?

Sure, but you would need more battery capacity and more solar capacity..

Make life easier on yourself, buy a 2200W gen for the A/C, then you have less cost and less limitations for that use.

This is alot of perspective to consider, and I'm appreciative of it, but I'm trying to avoid getting/using a generator and lugging around gas cans..

I get what you say about run time but would running the AC on low would help?

Skibane wrote:

ChrispyjCSLT22 wrote:
This one here I got a build and quote price of 39080.00

That's around $12K more than a nicely-equipped Casita.

Suggestion: Watch a few YouTube videos on how RVs are built.

Here's a good one to start with: Jayco Factory Tour

Ty for the link but its dated 2013?

PButler96 wrote:

ChrispyjCSLT22 wrote:

PButler96 wrote:

Skibane wrote:
Both models are made by Forest River (mediocre build quality on a good day), and both models have slideouts (which add a lot of weight and mechanical complexity).

A few other brands to consider with better reputations for build quality:

Bigfoot
Casita
Escape
Scamp

If you're feeling spendy, also take a look at Oliver.

Spendy indeed. The OP said ready to buy in the next 6 months. I doubt any of those brands listed will be found new just sitting on a dealers lot and if they are you can bet it will be for top dollar. I would bet there are production waiting lists at all of them for ordering. They're few and far between on the used market also, and they're always priced out of sight. So unless the OP has lots of time and money, or is extremely lucky, I'd say those brands are not on his radar, nor are the prices.

They are not..

just fyi, here are the 2 I'm considering.. My budget is 35K or below.... I have a bike rally in Oct and want to sell my 2020 harley afterwards and that will give me atleast 4-6K to put down on a TT.

This one here is already equipped with the power pkg to run the AC off of the batts.

https://www.ganderrv.com/rvdetails/new-travel-trailer-rvs/2022-forest-river-flagstaff-e-pro-19fds-rear-bath-40k-CMO1863852


This one here I got a build and quote price of 39080.00

Your Price is $39080
New No Boundaries (NOBO) NB19.5 Travel Trailer
Equipment:
19 Series Package X
Curt Beast Mode Independent Suspension
No Boundaries Beast Mode
Interior Decor, Aspen Frost
J-Cradle Kayak Holder
Unplugged Package
Regards,
Your Friends At Couch's RV Nation

https://www.couchsrvnation.com/forest-river/build-and-price/193/1684

Listen to what folks have been telling you. The cheap solar **** that the manufacturers include is not going to run the AC for any length of time that is even remotely beneficial. It's all junk and nothing more than bling to sucker in people. If your ordering from the factory do not get any of it and save the money for a real system, but get ready to spend a few grand for it to do what you want it to do.

Then shall I as far as the e-pro or the NoBo's concern, find out what brand inverter and charge controller they use in there solar package?

ChrispyjCSLT22 wrote:
This one here I got a build and quote price of 39080.00

That's around $12K more than a nicely-equipped Casita.

Suggestion: Watch a few YouTube videos on how RVs are built.

Here's a good one to start with: Jayco Factory Tour