Steering wheel angle while towing

BenK wrote:
IMHO...greasing will reduce, in part, how they work to manage sway/yaw

Most all use friction of some sort. Some friction and an over center
system (that then goes into a friction mode).

That is why they make noise...over coming the friction and the over
center point. So defeats part of their functional attributes

Even the silent Anderson system uses friction material on the ball's
tapered shank.

So they all will leave the setup off center by the amount of friction
vs the setup and whether it went past center to center, if that makes
sense to you folks

The only system I've seen to date that does NOT use friction is the
Blue Ox and will be my next WD system. They do have a kinda sorta
over center method, but it's to do with the two spring bars...not a
cammed system. The other WD cammed systems also have this inherent
in that the two spring bars push/pull back to a null position...or
try to

Oh...there is another, but I'm no longer interested in the Pullrite
system. Still think it's the best of the best, but the fact that it
stays with the vehicle when not towing and the biggie...reduced ground
clearance is something am not fond of

Pullrite's do NOT use friction, but manages by removing the lever arm
to the TV's rear axle (greatly reduced to a few inches vs a few feet).
To behave much like a Fiver's PIN location over the TV's rear axle

Guess the HA & the like into this, as they project the pivot point to
be nearer the TV's rear axle center line. I've never experienced the
'bump' folks talk about, but am not interested in the HA either

Ben,

I'm quite interested in the over-center claim of the Blue Ox hitch. I once got into a discussion with Ron Gratz about how the tilt of the shank (and forward WD pivot angles) might affect a self-centering tendency of the standard WD set-up. An innovative gentleman by the name of Andy Thomson has surmised that every WD hitch can be self-centering if the tilt is adjusted correctly. Ron disagreed in theory, and I hoped to measure it one day to determine if the WD arms did increase tension in a turn.

I do plan to replace my Hensley with an ordinary, low priced Eaz-Lift hitch to speed up reconnection. I first owned an Eaz-Lift that came with my first 30' TT camper and it performed flawlessly with no friction bars needed. Friction bars can be added at any time on this low priced hitch and it is the original WD company with all others being knock-offs. I gladly used it on my second 30 footer until I sold it with the first TT. I've missed the 5 minute ease of hitchin' up ever since. The Hensley actually is more stable in very high winds, but it can occasionally be cumbersome to get perfect square re-alignment for reconnection. I'll save the Hensley in case I ever tour cross-country, or get an unstable TT.

I still am surprised to learn that the friction of an Equal-i-zer sticks to one side for more than a few feet after a turn, and mere lube cures it. It would take a perfect turn every time, with no S waggle after, to arrive at a steady side force. OTOH, soft, underinflated passenger tires might off-set everytime they are loaded.

Wes
...

BenK wrote:
IMHO...greasing will reduce, in part, how they work to manage sway/yaw

Most all use friction of some sort. Some friction and an over center
system (that then goes into a friction mode).

That is why they make noise...over coming the friction and the over
center point. So defeats part of their functional attributes

Even the silent Anderson system uses friction material on the ball's
tapered shank.

So they all will leave the setup off center by the amount of friction
vs the setup and whether it went past center to center, if that makes
sense to you folks

You are correct. In my case, I've found that reducing the noise and friction slightly with grease was not enough to offset the anti-sway capability of the Equal-I-zer hitch. I've taken it out several times since greasing it, and have not experienced any sway driving on the interstate with wind and semi's passing me. Have a friend who has used an Equal-I-zer hitch for 10 years with his camper, greases it once a year, and has also never experienced any significant sway. Of course, you have to drive responsibly. :)

IMHO...greasing will reduce, in part, how they work to manage sway/yaw

Most all use friction of some sort. Some friction and an over center
system (that then goes into a friction mode).

That is why they make noise...over coming the friction and the over
center point. So defeats part of their functional attributes

Even the silent Anderson system uses friction material on the ball's
tapered shank.

So they all will leave the setup off center by the amount of friction
vs the setup and whether it went past center to center, if that makes
sense to you folks

The only system I've seen to date that does NOT use friction is the
Blue Ox and will be my next WD system. They do have a kinda sorta
over center method, but it's to do with the two spring bars...not a
cammed system. The other WD cammed systems also have this inherent
in that the two spring bars push/pull back to a null position...or
try to

Oh...there is another, but I'm no longer interested in the Pullrite
system. Still think it's the best of the best, but the fact that it
stays with the vehicle when not towing and the biggie...reduced ground
clearance is something am not fond of

Pullrite's do NOT use friction, but manages by removing the lever arm
to the TV's rear axle (greatly reduced to a few inches vs a few feet).
To behave much like a Fiver's PIN location over the TV's rear axle

Guess the HA & the like into this, as they project the pivot point to
be nearer the TV's rear axle center line. I've never experienced the
'bump' folks talk about, but am not interested in the HA either

I'll repeat what I said earlier, and I almost guarantee this will resolve your issue...I had the EXACT SAME ISSUE with the Equal-I-Zer hitch. Super-noisy, and steering wheel occasionally angled in the direction of the last turn, when going forward. When unhooked, steering wheel angle was fine. To resolve, simply lube the following parts of the Equalizer hitch:

1. Lube both the top and the bottom of that swivel part where the WD bars insert into the hitch head--make sure you do both top and bottom. Put some grease there and using the WD bars, swivel the joints a bit to spread the grease.

2. Lube the L-brackets, and for good measure, lube a bit on the length of the WD bars where they may contact the L-bracket.

3. Lube the hitch ball.

Any good wheel-bearing or axle grease will do. I used the red grease at walmart; bought a tube of it, put disposable gloves on, and just spread it liberally where needed.

Since then, the hitch has been quiet with no creaking noise at all, and the steering has always tracked straight ever since. Lube once and it should last the whole season.

Take all this info for what it's worth, but I'm just telling you from the experience of someone who's had the exact same hitch with the exact same issue... Good luck!

The Equalizer hitch was purchased "used" so I don't really have any idea how old it is or if/when it was ever lubed. It is very noisy.

The hitch I used before with a different TT was just a cheap friction sway bar hitch and it did exhibit the same characteristics. BUT, it seemed to not do it as severely as the Equalizer, if that makes sense? I could force the wheel to return to center more easily and/or it would eventually return to center by itself.

Maybe the Equalizer has that much more friction capability and is holding it off center after a turn?

I do intend to get to a CAT scale, but that probably will not happen as soon as I would like as I have to load the trailer AND convince the family we need to drive down and weigh it LOL.

Anyway, I probably won't have any additional concrete information until I go weigh it and/or do more of the stuff in this thread. Thanks for the tips. Now will someone come test them all for me??? :)

BenK wrote:
To the OP...next time try this and report back on this thread what happened

After a turn or going on a curve, over correct a bit to reset the WD Setup

I think your WD setup is NOT returning to center and is off line a bit in the
direction of the last turn/curve/etc

By going a bit over center to the 'other' direction, think your WD Setup will
be more 'centered' and not impart that 'kink' in the center your setup (at the
ball)

Agree 100% here and why greasing the bars on the hitch helps overcome that friction and enables it to return to center. Although that also removes most of the "built in" sway control.

We blame P-rated tires for everything from to flood to famine but Capri Racer is correct, they have no bearing on this situation.

Some thoughts:

I know that many folks think that P type tires have weak sidewalls and going to LT tires is the answer to that - and they think that's the solution here.

Since inflation pressure has a major affect on tire stiffness, then a quick and easy test would be to add 5 psi to the pressure and see what happens. You could even add 10 psi as a test (not for a regular tow - just a test). If that doesn't result in some change, then tire stiffness isn't the solution.

I would suspect that the front end is being unloaded and that's changing the alignment. A bit of toe out would result in that exact symptom.

So I would look at the alignment AND weigh things to see if the weight is being properly carried by the truck. I suspect it is not.

Hybridhunter wrote:

BenK wrote:
To the OP...next time try this and report back on this thread what happened

After a turn or going on a curve, over correct a bit to reset the WD Setup

I think your WD setup is NOT returning to center and is off line a bit in the
direction of the last turn/curve/etc

By going a bit over center to the 'other' direction, think your WD Setup will
be more 'centered' and not impart that 'kink' in the center your setup (at the
ball)

More likely the friction sway than the WD aspect IMO. Easy enough to disable both individually.

Ben is correct because of the hitch brand, and his suggestion should work if the anti-sway is to blame. Personally, I think the anti-sway would normally let go on it's own shortly after the curve without any extra effort to neutralize it.

The OP stated he is now using the Equalizer (Equal-i-zer) brand hitch on this newest trailer. The friction on this brand is built into the hitch by the WD bars more or less permanently binding on their rear attachment:

The friction is produced by the L-brackets rubbing on the WD bars.
-------------------------------------------------------------


Equal-i-zer FAQ page quote:

"My hitch is noisy, what can I do?
The steel-on-steel friction of the Equal-i-zer hitch will always generate some noise. This is not bad, or a sign that there is something wrong with the hitch or setup. In fact, it usually tells you that your hitch is working just like it's supposed to.

You can do several things that usually reduce most of the hitch noise:

1. Try using a set of Equal-i-zer Sway Bracket Jackets on your L-brackets. These were specially designed to help reduce the noise at this joint, without the mess of using grease.
2. Keep your hitch head clean and the sockets lubricated.
3. Re-adjust the angle of your hitch so that the arms sit more parallel with the trailer frame. For example - when your hitch is hooked up, if your spring arms angle up slightly from the hitch head back along the trailer frame, try adding a spacer washer to the hitch head, and lowering the L-brackets 1 hole. This will give you the same weight distribution, but make the arms more parallel to the frame of the trailer."

The above quote is taken from this company page.

For the OP's information, he may note that lubricant (or less messy jackets) may be employed to "loosen" the tension if that is what is causing the off-center tracking. I have doubts that the Equal-i-zer hitch is at fault unless his other hitch also had a stiff anti-sway friction mechanism. He mentioned in his 3rd post that he had a different hitch before with the same result. Only the vehicle is common between the similar problems with the other trailer and hitch.

Hybridhunter, I'm not too surprised that you don't recognize this particular tire characteristic, as most folks don't. It is quite likely that quite a few trucks do steer slightly to the side a bit while towing, but it is generally so light and subtle that most folks don't realize it is occurring. However, the OP is a very observant fellow, and I believe, due to the mild nature of the situation, he is more curious than deeply concerned. It is not rare, but rather common that the steering wheel may hold to one side or another for an extended period, but it is most noticeable during a side wind or aggressively crowned road.

From his picture and description, I found his present Wrangler tires here. They are only rated for 44 psi max, and he can bump his load rating and gain stability by upgrading to at least a C Load Range tire. I would consider a D, or E Load Range if they are available in this size. Some searching on the Tirerack site may help guide him for the 275/65-18 sizes.

Wes
...

Hybridhunter wrote:
Given the rarity of this issue, blaming P-metric tires makes ZERO sense. The vast majority of light truck users, and just about everyone down from there, uses passenger tires. Not to mention, no F150's are known to do this, unless there are suspension wear, trailer, or trailer hitch issues. Bottom line, not likely the tires. Could be something amiss in the EPS system, but this all seems odd, because anyone who owns one of these trucks knows they don't tolerate sway, and they don't even tolerate a steering angle that doesn't correlate with the direction of vehicle travel / polar moment.

I agree P metric tires are capable for light duty towing. I would have to disagree with your blanket statement though. And that's because I have plenty of experience with both on the same vehicle. I never had stability issues with my last E rated tires, even at the lowly 35 PSI that I maintained for daily driving, and periodically forgot to increase for towing. 40 to 50 PSI was rock solid. My current P rated tires have a max inflation of 51 PSI and a much higher rating than the rest of the truck suspension, yet yielded terrible towing characteristics at 35 PSI. It's much improved once I inflate to 51 PSI, but still not as solid as the LTs. Granted my old truck could have worn suspension components, but they're not that bad. It's well maintained.

BenK wrote:
To the OP...next time try this and report back on this thread what happened

After a turn or going on a curve, over correct a bit to reset the WD Setup

I think your WD setup is NOT returning to center and is off line a bit in the
direction of the last turn/curve/etc

By going a bit over center to the 'other' direction, think your WD Setup will
be more 'centered' and not impart that 'kink' in the center your setup (at the
ball)

More likely the friction sway than the WD aspect IMO. Easy enough to disable both individually.