Towing Jeep GC Question

Boatycall wrote:
... Now I don't break much at all. Small power, small tires, on a gorilla-built drivetrain means no more breaky-pop-snap.

That makes sense. You need to be equipped for the way you play. Not everyone plays the extreme, nor they want to. My truck has only broke one time. I was flat towing my Samurai. Had I been towing a trailer, getting the truck to a shop would have been much more difficult. As it was, I disconnected the Samurai, loaded the wife and two grand kids in the Samurai and followed the tow truck to the shop. I might point out I have not broke my Samurai that my parts on hand did not fix. With that said, everyone does not need a trailer for their 4x4 vehicle.

Wayne

Reddog1 wrote:

Boatycall wrote:
... I've Jeep'd for years, and the weakest point of failure on a Jeep is the axles. And when you snap one, you can't flat tow.

You either have to do a trail-fix and replace it, assuming you brought a spare, or winch/drag yourself up onto your trailer and head home.

And how do you get your trailer to the Jeep that is broke on the trail?

You don't get the trailer to the Jeep, you have to bubble-gum and bailin' wire the thing together enough to get it off the trail.

I've done all of these to get off the trail and back to camp, none of which would make for a good flat-tow situation--
* ratchet-strapped front end together
* trail-welded my hi-lift jack handle to use as a drag link
* used a log as a skid under the front end after the ball-joints busted (with a lot of winching to get off the trail.)

I also carry a lot of spares, on-board welder, on-board air & tools, etc. I've broke a ton of stuff that I could still get off the trail with, but definitely not flat-tow down the road. I "used" to break quite often to the point of needing to trailer home. We play hard.....

But I've sunk thousand's into my Jeep-- Currie Rock Jock axles, Tom Woods drivelines, Reid knuckles, RCV's, etc, --but kept only stock power and modest tires. Now I don't break much at all. Small power, small tires, on a gorilla-built drivetrain means no more breaky-pop-snap.

I tend to only go on green and blue trails, and my hemi has heavier axles, but I admit, one of these days...Nice looking Arctic Fox, Boatycall.

Boatycall wrote:
... I've Jeep'd for years, and the weakest point of failure on a Jeep is the axles. And when you snap one, you can't flat tow.

You either have to do a trail-fix and replace it, assuming you brought a spare, or winch/drag yourself up onto your trailer and head home.

And how do you get your trailer to the Jeep that is broke on the trail?

Personally, I carry spare axles in my Samurai, and a spare third in the TC. I also carry a spare driveline, u-joints, hoses and other smaller parts in the Samurai. They cost less than a trailer, take less space, and allow me to drive out of the trail and Flat tow home.

For years, I played with Dune Buggies, Bajas, and Sandrails. I did trailer them, but still carried spare parts, not in the machines but on the trailer of in the truck.

Like most things in life, you try to be prepared.

Wayne

One thing not mentioned -- WHEN--not IF, you break your Jeep on the trail. I've Jeep'd for years, and the weakest point of failure on a Jeep is the axles. And when you snap one, you can't flat tow.

You either have to do a trail-fix and replace it, assuming you brought a spare, or winch/drag yourself up onto your trailer and head home.

EVERYONE in my group trailers. Plus you have trailer brakes.

And as far as tongue weight goes, you'll get a feel for the balance as you load the Jeep as far as how far forward to pull. As you load your Jeep on the trailer, of course you'll be lifting the hitch. The farther you pull on, the more the trailer levels back out. Don't pull so far forward as to start lowering the back of your truck.

My "former" TC and Jeep setup---

Well after towing some time you get to know were to recreation, area the Jeep on the trailer by the way it seems behind you. Get all set up right indicate it, so you can set the jeep on your next journey.


Forklifts

diver110 wrote:

mkirsch wrote:

diver110 wrote:
Very helpful. A few more questions, if you don't mind.

1. How hard it is, skill-wise, to pull a car/car on trailer?

2. In looking at payloads and towing capacity, do you have to discount one for the other. In other words, can a truck with a camper on not pull its max? Is there any formula for figuring that out?

1. Going forward is not much different from driving just the truck, if everything is set up properly. Backing up takes practice, practice, practice.

2. You are on the right track saying "a truck with a camper on {can} not pull its max."

Every pound you put IN the truck is roughly SEVEN pounds you can NOT tow.

When you are sizing a truck, you need to figure both the weight of the camper and the weight of the trailer tongue into the truck's GVWR.

When you are sizing a truck, you need to figure both the weight or the camper and the ENTIRE weight of the trailer into the truck's GCWR.

Truck+camper+trailer tongue < GVWR
Truck+camper+whole trailer < GCWR

That's *ideal*. The world is not always ideal.

More than likely, in order to fit those rules you will need a big F350 or 3500-series truck with dual rear wheels, a dually, aka DRW truck. Lots of people have irrational hang-ups about driving DRW trucks, too big, too wide, too heavy, too too... whatever!

You can add on all sorts of aftermarket accessories on an F250 or 2500-series truck to keep it from sagging while you overload it. Some people call it "increasing the payload" but really, it isn't. Anyway, this allows them to carry heavier loads and feel safe while doing it. Good bad or indifferent, YOU need to determine if you feel safe and comfortable building up an F250 type truck to carry the load or if you would rather start off with an F350 dually type truck that can carry the load with no modifications.

If you go with a light enough camper, though, you can run an F250 size truck without modifications. Your question asked about overhangs, so I assume you're looking for a bigger more well-appointed camper.

BTW, is it really 7-1? That would mean a 2000 pound camper would eliminate most trucks' towing capacity.

I think he's basing that on a ~15% tongue weight. It only eliminates towing if the max trailer tow rating causes the truck to be at it's GVWR with just the camper.

We flat tow our Wrangler Unlimited with no issues and we don't worry about the load capacity of our 24 inch hitch extension. However, there are some serious limitations on backing up with a tow bar attached vehicle (like, don't do it!) Those limitations are eliminated if the vehicle is on a proper trailer. Other considerations - a separate trailer must be licensed and insured (minus), trailer can be used for other things (plus), trailer can carry a broken vehicle (plus), a trailer can carry your Jeep AND your dirt bike (plus!), a trailer adds to the total GCVW (minus). Lots of pros and cons but we love the freedom of the Jeep on trips like this coming weekend's to Utah for some BLM camping and 4-wheeling.

mkirsch wrote:

diver110 wrote:
Very helpful. A few more questions, if you don't mind.

1. How hard it is, skill-wise, to pull a car/car on trailer?

2. In looking at payloads and towing capacity, do you have to discount one for the other. In other words, can a truck with a camper on not pull its max? Is there any formula for figuring that out?

1. Going forward is not much different from driving just the truck, if everything is set up properly. Backing up takes practice, practice, practice.

2. You are on the right track saying "a truck with a camper on {can} not pull its max."

Every pound you put IN the truck is roughly SEVEN pounds you can NOT tow.

When you are sizing a truck, you need to figure both the weight of the camper and the weight of the trailer tongue into the truck's GVWR.

When you are sizing a truck, you need to figure both the weight or the camper and the ENTIRE weight of the trailer into the truck's GCWR.

Truck+camper+trailer tongue < GVWR
Truck+camper+whole trailer < GCWR

That's *ideal*. The world is not always ideal.

More than likely, in order to fit those rules you will need a big F350 or 3500-series truck with dual rear wheels, a dually, aka DRW truck. Lots of people have irrational hang-ups about driving DRW trucks, too big, too wide, too heavy, too too... whatever!

You can add on all sorts of aftermarket accessories on an F250 or 2500-series truck to keep it from sagging while you overload it. Some people call it "increasing the payload" but really, it isn't. Anyway, this allows them to carry heavier loads and feel safe while doing it. Good bad or indifferent, YOU need to determine if you feel safe and comfortable building up an F250 type truck to carry the load or if you would rather start off with an F350 dually type truck that can carry the load with no modifications.

If you go with a light enough camper, though, you can run an F250 size truck without modifications. Your question asked about overhangs, so I assume you're looking for a bigger more well-appointed camper.

BTW, is it really 7-1? That would mean a 2000 pound camper would eliminate most trucks' towing capacity.

Here are the towed (toad) braking requirements by state.

Toad Braking By State