JALLEN4 wrote:
monkey44 wrote:
ALLEN4 wrote:
As soon as the retail customer starts paying MSRP for the vehicle, puts what they will take for the trade on the windshield, and hands the salesman a credit app when they arrive will be when you will know the real price of the vehicle without asking.
End Quote
That's makes no sense -- the dealer has no use for my credit app because I bring a check - and not everyone finances with the seller.
I tell him exactly what I will take for my trade as soon as I arrive, and carry a KBB (or whatever appraisal service) printout with me ... The ONLY thing I don't know when I get there is the dealers price. And if manufacturers (or the dealer) would put the price ON the vehicle instead of a phantom MSRP sticker, and every dealer sold every vehicle for that price, we'd have less hassle, and less "wasted time" both for dealers, salesmen, AND buyers.
Hiding the price is the single most time-wasting event in truck selling. PERIOD.
Like I said, if a salesman would tell us the price he's willing (or required) to sell the truck sitting right there in front of me for when I ask it, we'd not need to have this forum discussion at all. The easiest question we ask, and the most elusive answer is always PRICE OF THIS TRUCK, this one, right sitting on these tires and on your lot.
AND, for a $30k-$40k purchase, it's even MORE important than it is a can of peas to know the price of what you're buying. It always seems 'tricky or crooked' or even unethical when any seller of any product refuses to disclose a price at any time the buyer asks - it simply reeks of manipulation.
When we were looking at a Ford, I'd been emailing and phone-talking to the salesman about a week or so (three of four times, total). He absolutely refused to give a price on the truck ... He kept asking me, "Are you going to buy it?" and I kept asking him the price. He never gave us a price, even sitting in his office after taking a test drive -- and we finally walked out and tried another dealer. Ended up with the Chevy ...
First, there is a legitimate price on every truck that you are free to inspect. It is legitimate and is the manufacturers suggested retail price. Because you refuse to accept its validity or because in most instances you can buy for less makes it no less a real price. What price would you rather have posted and would you pay that price without question? Of course not. Even Saturn with their "one price" system negotiated and ultimately failed. Only a fool would put one price on the vehicle and watch the customer walk because he wanted the vehicle for ten dollars less. With that, where does it stop. There are 20,000 new car dealers in this country and not a single one of them has a price on every vehicle they own that they would never go below. Pricing is too complicated and there are too many variables that can change daily.
Second, there are dozens of on-line sources that will tell you what your used vehicle is worth and not one of them will buy it sight unseen for that price. Had there been, I would not have had to pay a used car manager six figures yearly to appraise my trades as I could have simply hired a high school kid who could read. As an experiment, I have watched ten professional managers from ten different stores appraise the same car at the same time and come up with numbers that varied as much as two thousand dollars. At the end of the day, the owner of that car would have argued that all ten were wrong anyway as he once saw one advertised three- thousand miles away for more. Another reason the dealer does not have a fixed price.
Third, by far, the majority of people do not carry a check book to buy their car. Unfortunately, your several million dollar investment in a dealership is not run for the less than 10% of people who actually might pay cash. You run it based on the vast majority of people who buy and expect the dealer to arrange financing. Those with better credit will eventually get an overall better deal and those with lesser credit pay more because their past performance shows they are a higher risk.
Fourth, everyone says to never tell the dealer what kind of payment you want. In reality, 99% of the people buy based on a payment whether they finance or pay cash which is one payment. Most everyone has a limit they cannot exceed but you would be amazed how many people cannot grasp what payments should be. I have watched thousands of consumers look at fifty-thousand dollar vehicles knowing they have a thousand dollars down and can't possibly pay more than $350 per month.
Car and truck prices have been negotiated for more than a hundred years and most likely will be negotiated for the next hundred. Get over it! You aren't ever going to walk into a dealership where the lowest possibwindshields posted on the windsheild. One that you can't beat anywhere. Just ain't gonna happen!
YOU just proved my case -- We Must go in and see truck and find out pricing (financing when appropriate) -- With your own proof in mind, we walk in and shop, truly shop around, and when we get a price and a truck we want, we sign and fork over the money.
My issue was with the false claim "Customers waste the salesman time" -- while in fact,if they don't come to terms, both are wasting time for the other -- getting a price on a truck is like pulling teeth with tweezers.
We just did it, and we bought a truck from the FIRST salesman that gave me a price THE FIRST time we asked him, AND a the trade value of my truck we asked for during our FIRST email contact.
Salesman that beat around the bush, and fail to disclose info a buyer needs to close the deal will claim the customer waste the time -- BS ... the salesman that hide the info has NO one to blame but himself if he fails to close a deal. We arrive (most of us) truly ready to lay out the money, it's the song and dance that takes the time, and the salesman is in charge of that --
Salesman :: Tell me the price -- (You always claim it's the lowest)
AND in actual fact: Had a Ford salesman tell me a price (after the pull teeth session) and we were still debating on Chevy and Ford ... so, were comparing price VS ride, and options, and already took the test drive (we were serious) ... He insisted it was his absolute Best Lowest Price. So, we went to drive another truck to compare ... and in fact, we don't shop price specifically - but value, ride, comfort, power etc ... price is secondary, but of course, we eventually need that number -- So, within two hours of walking out, the FORD guys sends me an email "If you buy it today, we'll give you another $1000 off. (That's off the lowest possible price he can give) ... so what does that tell you? About truth ...
Then, he later added a, ADDITIONAL $700 "dealer prep fee", for what he called, 'non producers' in the dealership, which is "office workers" -- First, that's part of the overhead, second an insult to call office work 'non-producers' ... it's like charging a "rent fee' a paving fee' a 'roof and building' fee ... ridiculous.
In fact too, we bought a truck that was $4000 more than the Ford ... because we liked it better.
Allow me the courtesy of shopping that price (and other brands), if I choose to do it. It's my $40K, and you want to earn it, not just pick it up off the table.
AND,if you are true in price (like you claim), then you get a sale, if you aren't, then you don't. But hiding the price for as long as possible to "wear down the buyer" makes no good business sense ...
BTW:: Price Fixed sales is not the reason Saturn folded ... it's actually not even relevant.
