Volkswagen completes first non Tesla cross US charge network

Dadoffourgirls wrote:
I was excited to see this! I could now take my Bolt on an exciting road trip to see my daughter at Kansas State if I go straight south to Dayton. However, I will probably just take one of my vehicles that I can go 5 hours between fill-ups, fuel at any exit, and take the shortest and fastest route.

I can see that. The bolt is a great little commuter. Tighter turning radius and easier to park than our Tesla. Quick and nimble. Nice flat cargo area. But not the car of choice for a road trip. Slow charging and no TACC kind of take it out of the running for that crowd. I think that will change in 2021 or 2022. Their are already rumours out there that the charge rate will be almost double to around 100 KW and all the new CCS stations are at least 100KW. For the time being TESLA is still the road trip choice although it’s not as nimble in the city. I find myself looking for much wider parking spots with the Tesla. It’s a fat car. I’m glad the mirrors fold in for driving in the garage. Would be kinda tight otherwise.

There are some smokin deals at the Chevy dealer right now for left over 2019 bolts. For a slightly smaller battery than the 2020’s one can save like 10 grand. One of the wife’s friends picked one up. Kind of a cherry burgundy colour similar to our leaf. Real nice.

I was excited to see this! I could now take my Bolt on an exciting road trip to see my daughter at Kansas State if I go straight south to Dayton. However, I will probably just take one of my vehicles that I can go 5 hours between fill-ups, fuel at any exit, and take the shortest and fastest route.

sayoung wrote:
What is the cost to charge at these station ?

Depends on where you are and sometimes when you are charging. Good rule of thumb is 3 to 4 times what it costs at home. A good thing as it it keeps the Fast chargers from getting to busy. Incentives charging at home or other level 2 charging.

What is the cost to charge at these station ?

thomas201 wrote:
The only thing that bothers me is that the chargers are empty, as shown in your pics and my experience. Maybe, it is due to the ability to fill up at home. Maybe they are building for the future. But unused assets always bug me.

Probably a combination of things.

Yes, the vast majority (greater than 90 percent) of charging is done at home. Fast chargers and Superchargers generally speaking are not used by commuters but rather by people on road trips. They know they can do normal road trips because the infrastructure is in place and it is fast. This is partially what is holding back sales of other brands. The CCS/ Chademo networks are there and growing but in a more half hazard and unconnected manner. That and much slower

There is a chicken and the egg thing as well. What comes first. Infrastructure or vehicles. For example. People buy Tesla’s because they know the infrastructure is already built. I think within a year or two the CCS/Chademo networks will be comparable and Tesla will begin to lose some advantage here. Jmho.

Superchargers can be quite busy on weekends, even to the point of line ups in some key areas. I have never seen this but have seen pictures of long weekend lineups close to key highway interchanges. On quiet weekdays though these can look deserted. Everybody fills at home or in the hotel parking lot if on a trip. We pick our hotels based on charge facilities...well that and a good breakfast. :).

The only thing that bothers me is that the chargers are empty, as shown in your pics and my experience. Maybe, it is due to the ability to fill up at home. Maybe they are building for the future. But unused assets always bug me.

rjstractor wrote:

Reisander wrote:
Non Tesla EV’s like Nissan Leafs, Chevy Bolts, Jaguar, Porsche etc will probably never have access to the Supercharger network as they haven’t paid a dime into it.

And therein lies the problem I mentioned earlier that needs to be sorted out before EVs will dominate the market. A private, proprietary network that can only serve one brand of car might work great when less than 3% of new vehicles sold are electric and that brand dominates that small market. But for EVs to garner 50% or more of the market, proprietary charging networks need to go away. I imagine at some point the Supercharger network will be bought out, and all EVs will be able to charge fast at any charging station, just like gas stations today.

Could be. Who knows what the future will bring. But right now the defacto standard is TESLA as all other EV sales combined don't come close to Tesla sales. So although it is proprietary is it also dominant. Tesla has also offered to open the Supercharger network to any car manufacturer that wants to invest in the network with them. There have been no takers to date. I personally believe that CCS and Chademo will become dominant eventually as other manufacturers get into EV building. But that is probably a decade away. Ford and GM are projecting they will build 320,000 EV's combined by 2026, or a little less than Tesla built in 2019. For the next 10 years I think you'll see a continued build out on all three standards and they will co-exist in healthy competition. Healthy competition among charge providers will also keep rates competitive. This is already starting to happen.

Cheers.

Reisander wrote:
Non Tesla EV’s like Nissan Leafs, Chevy Bolts, Jaguar, Porsche etc will probably never have access to the Supercharger network as they haven’t paid a dime into it.

And therein lies the problem I mentioned earlier that needs to be sorted out before EVs will dominate the market. A private, proprietary network that can only serve one brand of car might work great when less than 3% of new vehicles sold are electric and that brand dominates that small market. But for EVs to garner 50% or more of the market, proprietary charging networks need to go away. I imagine at some point the Supercharger network will be bought out, and all EVs will be able to charge fast at any charging station, just like gas stations today.

wilber1 wrote:

Non Tesla EV’s like Nissan Leafs, Chevy Bolts, Jaguar, Porsche etc will probably never have access to the Supercharger network as they haven’t paid a dime into it. It is a private network.

How much has Tesla paid into anyone else's network?

You mean into their competitors fast charge networks? None that I know of. At least two of them are now adding Tesla plugs so TESLA owners don’t have to use the adapter. It essentially adds just a third “handle” to the pump. EVgo is doing this now. Smart move as it opens them up to the biggest EV market which of course are Tesla’s. They are starting to more aggressively target the Tesla market although Chademo charging at an EVGO station is considerably slower than a Supercharger. Sometimes it is extremely handy for the Tesla owner though. I can't imagine any reason why TESLA would pay them anything though.

Tesla has donated a ton of J1772 level two locations all over the world though. Quite often you’ll see this in hotels etc. There will be 4 chargers. Two Tesla and two non Tesla j1772. All 4 were given to the hotel by Tesla though. The hotel has to pay for install and is responsible for maintenance. They are free to use so no revenue stream to follow. Tesla uses the J-772 format but is physically a different connecter.

Below is a picture of the J1772 plug on top and Tesla plug on the bottom. They both use the international J1772 Format but Tesla’s plug is physically different as it uses the same plug for AC and DC charging where everybody else uses a separate plug for DC fast charging. Namely CCS and CHADEMO.



There is an underground parking lot near us that has a good example of a Tesla paid for installation. 2 non Tesla and two Tesla Ac chargers. However, every Tesla comes with an adapter that allows the Tesla to use either. So in these cases there are technically 4 stations available for the Tesla and only two for non Tesla’s. Teslas can charge at up to 11.5 kw on level 2 while everybody maxes out at 7.7 KW with most charging at 6.6 kw. So even on AC level 2 charging Teslas are considerably faster.




Here is a shot of the J1772 handle with the adapter attached.



Technically non TESLA owners can use the Tesla level two AC chargers but they have to buy an adapter whereas Tesla supplies it for free.


Below is the exact opposite of the above. This is what a non Tesla owner would buy if they wanted to charge at a Tesla level 2 destination charger. As stated destination chargers are common at hotels, restaurants, malls etc. We had one for our Leaf. Handy

Non Tesla EV’s like Nissan Leafs, Chevy Bolts, Jaguar, Porsche etc will probably never have access to the Supercharger network as they haven’t paid a dime into it. It is a private network.

How much has Tesla paid into anyone else's network?