Forum Discussion

Gald65's avatar
Gald65
Explorer
Jan 18, 2020

Would I ever be happy towing with a half ton truck

Back story-impulsively purchased a 2006 keystone 26tbl. Loaded weight about 7700 lbs. At that time towing with a 08 Sierra cc. Obviously not enough truck. Purchased a 11 Sierra Denali cc with the 6.2. It definitely does much better. It has plenty of motor but the handling leaves a little bit to be desired.
The question- eventually I plan on upgrading my trailer to something that has a loaded weight of around 8500 lbs. I know that I won’t be happy with the Denali. Is anyone out there towing that type of weight with one of the newer F150’s with the 13000lb configuration? Are you happy with the handling? Should I stop being a tight a$$ and get a 3/4 ton truck?
TIA
Tow Vehicles
  • Groover's avatar
    Groover
    Explorer II
    Jan 23, 2020
    The problem with the question is that trucks are evolving and every category is getting more capable. My 2016 F150 tows better than my 1991 F250 or my 2003 E350. And the new F150s tow better than my 2016 model. Asking whether you could ever be happy with one depends a lot on the year model and how it is equipped.
  • Groover's avatar
    Groover
    Explorer II
    Jan 23, 2020
    BenK wrote:
    It's all opinion...

    RGAWR is the main spec I look for in my decision for a truck and that is one of the Laws of Physics

    Haven't looked it up in a couple of years or so, but half tons top out at around 4,800 lb RGAWR, that hasn't changed much for decades. Not enough truck for my main TV...edit2...4.8K is the top end rating...most half ton RGAWR's are in the 3,xxx lb range...bell curve has low 3K's to 4.8K as top dog. My preference is for 6K or more RGAWR

    Yes, newer half ton's are rated to tow much more than before, but, IMHO there is more to it than MTWR...RGAWR is more important

    The OEM'S designed everything around the RGAWR and rude quality is high on these buyers "have to have" list

    Why more half ton owners discuss or have after market rear axle helper springs and higher class tires

    Nothing wring with that. It's a personal choice thing...just understand that adding higher spring & tire capacity does NOT increase RGAWR...that is a Law of Physics

    Sure, the OEM'S have design margins and note that by increasing spring rates e as t into those margins...

    Edit1...seat belts

    There was a time that they were not mandatory. Ditto other things like TPMS, safety glass, ABS, etc, etc, etc...

    Until too many were maimed or killed. So they became OPTIONAL

    Till folks continued to be maimed or killed...so DOT made them mandatory...to then make them either employed without human interaction...or madding buzzers that went off after you used them


    If the government can show that a device will more than pay for itself through safety, not only for the purchaser but also the world at large, then it should be mandated. But mandates that do not help the world at large and/or personal freedom should be seriously questioned. Requiring the use of seat belts is one of those.

    I am in favor of having seat belts in cars and I wear mine religiously but I don't believe that the government should have any say in whether or when I (or other occupants of the car) actually wear it. That is getting too invasive of personal freedom and I value freedom very highly. I don't want to live in a nanny state. We all know anyway that the best way to reduce deaths is to slow down some. If the police showed as much zeal in reigning in drivers that are a menace to society as they do for ticketing people not wearing seat belts a lot of wrecks could be avoided altogether. Those that do happen would be much less dangerous.

    Some things that would not cost much or infringe on freedom would be requiring all cars to come with DRLs(daytime running lights), automatic headlights including high/low beam), automatic wipers and lights on when the wipers are on.

    The bottom line for me is this, the government should protect me from you and you from me but not me from myself. We all have a right to freedom even if that means allowing for some stupid behavior.
  • ShinerBock's avatar
    ShinerBock
    Explorer
    Jan 23, 2020
    Most half tons topped out at 3,900 rear GAWR ten years ago which is today's average half ton rear GAWR. Modern HD or trailer packaged half tons can get up to 4,800 rear GAWR now.
  • BenK's avatar
    BenK
    Explorer
    Jan 23, 2020
    It's all opinion...

    RGAWR is the main spec I look for in my decision for a truck and that is one of the Laws of Physics

    Haven't looked it up in a couple of years or so, but half tons top out at around 4,800 lb RGAWR, that hasn't changed much for decades. Not enough truck for my main TV...edit2...4.8K is the top end rating...most half ton RGAWR's are in the 3,xxx lb range...bell curve has low 3K's to 4.8K as top dog. My preference is for 6K or more RGAWR

    Yes, newer half ton's are rated to tow much more than before, but, IMHO there is more to it than MTWR...RGAWR is more important

    The OEM'S designed everything around the RGAWR and rude quality is high on these buyers "have to have" list

    Why more half ton owners discuss or have after market rear axle helper springs and higher class tires

    Nothing wring with that. It's a personal choice thing...just understand that adding higher spring & tire capacity does NOT increase RGAWR...that is a Law of Physics

    Sure, the OEM'S have design margins and note that by increasing spring rates e as t into those margins...

    Edit1...seat belts

    There was a time that they were not mandatory. Ditto other things like TPMS, safety glass, ABS, etc, etc, etc...

    Until too many were maimed or killed. So they became OPTIONAL

    Till folks continued to be maimed or killed...so DOT made them mandatory...to then make them either employed without human interaction...or madding buzzers that went off after you used them
  • GDS-3950BH's avatar
    GDS-3950BH
    Explorer
    Jan 23, 2020
    Lantley wrote:
    GDS-3950BH wrote:
    Huntindog wrote:
    I understand the luxury and virtues of having more truck than needed, but also understand that it's not always in the cards or necessary either.



    One could look at seat belts the same way.



    Not really. Seatbelts are required by law. Having more truck than needed is only suggested by the weight police on RV forums.

    It's not man's law, But the laws of physics that leads one to use a beefier truck for towing.
    The idea that you can't have too much truck but you can suffer from not enough truck is rooted in physics laws not laws of the courts.


    Is it really?
  • ShinerBock's avatar
    ShinerBock
    Explorer
    Jan 23, 2020
    You can have too much truck, and the laws of physics says you can't fit a long wheel base DRW truck in the sames spaces as a short wheel base half ton. Laws of physics also says you aren't going to get as good of fuel economy in a gaser 3/4 and 1 ton when unloaded as a daily driver compared to a gaser half ton. Gaser 3/4 tons average around 11-12 mpg on fuelly while gaser half tons generally get around 16-17 mpg. Laws of physics also says that the heavier gas 3/4 and 1 ton will be much slower and have less performance than gaser half tons especially at elevation when compared to the turbocharged half tons like the Ecoboost. An Ecoboost would easily be able to hold speed with power to spare towing 10k above 5,000 ft while a 3/4 and 1 ton gaser would have trouble barely being able to keep speed if it is even able to do it at all.

    So yeah, you can have too much truck when all things are considered and not just the amount of weight a truck can carry. Most people base their opinions on outdated terminology because that is how half tons were 20 or 30 years ago when they had one. They don't even know the actual specs of the truck they are talking about becuase brakes on half tons have gotten much larger, frames have gotten stronger, axle systems are able to carry more and so on than the half tons of 20 or 30 years ago.

    I would also ask those who say a half ton cannot or should not tow 10k, when the last time they towed 10k with a properly equipped half ton that was less than 5 years old. If they haven't, then do they really have any validity to say a modern half ton can't or shouldn't do it? Get a 3/4 or 1 ton because you want one. It will be more stable with weight than a half ton, but you don't need it to tow 8,500 lbs or even 10k and it may not be the best choice when ALL things are considered in how the vehicle will be used. It may very well be too much truck.
  • Lantley's avatar
    Lantley
    Nomad
    Jan 23, 2020
    GDS-3950BH wrote:
    Huntindog wrote:
    I understand the luxury and virtues of having more truck than needed, but also understand that it's not always in the cards or necessary either.



    One could look at seat belts the same way.



    Not really. Seatbelts are required by law. Having more truck than needed is only suggested by the weight police on RV forums.

    It's not man's law, But the laws of physics that leads one to use a beefier truck for towing.
    The idea that you can't have too much truck but you can suffer from not enough truck is rooted in physics laws not laws of the courts.
  • librty02's avatar
    librty02
    Explorer
    Jan 23, 2020
    Gald65 wrote:
    Back story-impulsively purchased a 2006 keystone 26tbl. Loaded weight about 7700 lbs. At that time towing with a 08 Sierra cc. Obviously not enough truck. Purchased a 11 Sierra Denali cc with the 6.2. It definitely does much better. It has plenty of motor but the handling leaves a little bit to be desired.
    The question- eventually I plan on upgrading my trailer to something that has a loaded weight of around 8500 lbs. I know that I won’t be happy with the Denali. Is anyone out there towing that type of weight with one of the newer F150’s with the 13000lb configuration? Are you happy with the handling? Should I stop being a tight a$$ and get a 3/4 ton truck?
    TIA


    As you can see in my sig I have 2 F-150s that I tow my 7200lb GVWR trailer with and have now for well over 50000 miles with these 2 trucks and both have been absolutely amazing doing so in every way. I have been all up and down the east coast through the mountains of PA, WV, and NC over and over again. My 18 F-150 has the 13k configuration you are talking about. Many naysayers here that have never towed with the new aluminum body say that the new aluminum body does not tow as well as the previous generation did well let me tell you that is an extreme FALSE statement as my 18 with the aluminum body is more stable than my 11 is.

    Before I could answer your question completely I must know....

    -How often will you be towing this future new to you 8500lb GVWR trailer?
    -What will be the total length of the new trailer? As this plays more of a rule in towing than the extra 800lbs of weight does?
    -Would this new truck be your daily driver also?
    -What would be total weight of passengers and gear in the truck while towing?

    I will say if it were going to be your daily driver that you also use it as a tow vehicle say 3000 miles a year I would stick with the half ton and forget the 3/4 ton on one condition. I would go to Ford and order a F-150 with the 3.5 Ecoboost, Max tow package, and HEAVY DUTY PAYLOAD PACKAGE (HDPP)...that HDPP is key I would say for any half ton towing any travel trailer over 8K as you will need the added payload that package provides you. Without the payload package on avg a crew cab will have around 1700-1800lbs of available payload. With the HDPP you will be up around 2300-2400lbs of available payload.

    Others will say well you can get a same equipped 3/4 ton for the same price as the F-150...that is complete BS as the incentives on the 150 are always a lot more than the 250 are. When I shopped the last 2 times for a truck the same equipment in both trucks same sticker price the 150 was 10k cheaper out the door in the end and if a daily driver that will net you better fuel economy also at around 33% better.
  • GDS-3950BH's avatar
    GDS-3950BH
    Explorer
    Jan 23, 2020
    Huntindog wrote:
    I understand the luxury and virtues of having more truck than needed, but also understand that it's not always in the cards or necessary either.



    One could look at seat belts the same way.



    Not really. Seatbelts are required by law. Having more truck than needed is only suggested by the weight police on RV forums.
  • Huntindog's avatar
    Huntindog
    Explorer
    Jan 23, 2020
    I understand the luxury and virtues of having more truck than needed, but also understand that it's not always in the cards or necessary either.



    One could look at seat belts the same way.

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