South west RVs are not nice

Folks,
I'm closing this thread because it has strayed way off topic. Too bad. I, like many others, enjoyed this thread.

pnichols wrote:

All of the above is, of course, IMHO. :W

OK, fine! You didn't answer my questions or, apparently, read the linked articles.

Stay safe!

LS

I believe we (still) live in a democracy - regardless of what we see on CNN nightly. If the BLM is mistreating a citizen ... the last time I checked we have avenues for dealing with it outside civil disobedience.

So ... does the guy have a deed on file or buried under a rock somewhere saying it's "his land" ... or is he upset that he can no longer graze his cattle on what is now established BLM ("our") land? What is his point in light of him not paying grazing fees for quite some time?

It seems black and white to me ... either it is, or isn't, his land legally OR his cattle can no longer graze due to owing back grazing fees. If not, he has to pay grazing fees. What on Earth is the big controversy anyway. My bet is that the BLM is legally on solid ground and they're in fact not "confiscating" land deeded to a private citizen.

"Millennium" was of course an exaggeration on my part ... but I'm sure you get the point on what we did to the natives that had been living on North American land long before we arrived. If anyone does, they have "rights" to land way ahead of any ranching family ... so why does this guy think his family/relatives using the land since the 1800's automatically gives him some kind of holdings on the land?

I don't know the whole story ... but I suspect that it could be just another example of us independent spoiled-brat pampered and privileged fat cat Americans shaking our fist(s) in defiance of anyone telling us something we don't like that is impacting us chasing the almighty dollar any way we want.

All of the above is, of course, IMHO. :W

pnichols wrote:

LenSatic wrote:
Sorry, Phil, but he has as much right to live on his land as you do on yours. If a Chumash indian knocked on your door and said that you are on his land, would you just up and leave? Are you a "squatter"?

We are blessed to live on a beautiful 3+ acres in green mountains with a fantastic view out large windows. However ... IMHO I have no right to live on my land if the Native Americans once did and got kicked off against their will milleniums ago by ranchers, miners, soldiers, etc.. Lucky for me, they probably would have not wanted our piece of land - not much water, no pond, and soil a bit too rocky to raise much on except for redwood trees - so they probably are all right with me living on it in these modern times.

The fellow in question has even accrued a large unpaid bill for graising on our land (or maybe technically the ancient Indians' land). This is money owed to us taxpayers and there is no excuse for him dead-beating on his payment responsibility while continueing to leave his cattle on it. I pay all my taxes every year as I accrue them and so should he ... and not to his county either ... but to the current owners of the land - which is all citizens in every county of the U.S..

What do terrorists "look like"? I can't tell anymore.

By the way and FWIW, I see a running river in that photo above ... which our Native American friends usually really loved to camp near while raising their families - before they got run off.

All of the above is In-My-Non-Indian-Opinion, of course. ;)

Phil, my friend, a millennium is 1000 years. Did the first Europeans first show up here in 1014 or earlier? The Native Americans claim all of North, Central, and South America as theirs. You reside in North America, I believe.

I live on, formerly, Apache land. The woman who forced us to meet her daughter-in-law, a real estate agent, to sell us this land, is an Apache.

Did you read the second link in Less Stuff’s post? Dana Loesch is part Cherokee. http://danaloeschradio.com/the-real-story-of-the-bundy-ranch/

Let me add an analogy, if I may. Say you bought a house 20 years ago knowing what the property taxes would be. (You, sir, are protected by Prop 13.) Five years later, the county says. “Hey, wait a minute. Your property is in our county so we want property taxes, too”. Then, five more years later, the state says, “Dude, your county is in our state and we need the property taxes as well”. Then the federal government shows up, five years on, and says, “You know, your land is in the city, and the county, and the state, but, it’s also within the boarders of the USA, so pay up or else”. Would you just roll over and say, “OK”?

Let me ask, if the BLM comes to chase me off my land, would you be willing to support me?

Pat

LenSatic wrote:
Sorry, Phil, but he has as much right to live on his land as you do on yours. If a Chumash indian knocked on your door and said that you are on his land, would you just up and leave? Are you a "squatter"?

We are blessed to live on a beautiful 3+ acres in green mountains with a fantastic view out large windows. However ... IMHO I have no right to live on my land if the Native Americans once did and got kicked off against their will milleniums ago by ranchers, miners, soldiers, etc.. Lucky for me, they probably would have not wanted our piece of land - not much water, no pond, and soil a bit too rocky to raise much on except for redwood trees - so they probably are all right with me living on it in these modern times.

The fellow in question has even accrued a large unpaid bill for graising on our land (or maybe technically the ancient Indians' land). This is money owed to us taxpayers and there is no excuse for him dead-beating on his payment responsibility while continueing to leave his cattle on it. I pay all my taxes every year as I accrue them and so should he ... and not to his county either ... but to the current owners of the land - which is all citizens in every county of the U.S..

What do terrorists "look like"? I can't tell anymore.

By the way and FWIW, I see a running river in that photo above ... which our Native American friends usually really loved to camp near while raising their families - before they got run off.

All of the above is In-My-Non-Indian-Opinion, of course. ;)

garyhaupt wrote:
I see that the groups that showed up to support him are now being labelled 'domestic terrorists'.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2014/04/17/reid-calls-supporters-of-nevada-cattle-rancher-domestic-terrorists/?hpt=hp_t2


Gary Haupt

Picture of the "domestic terrorists"


Interesting article:
blm versus bundy

And another:
the real story

double post

Sorry, Phil, but he has as much right to live on his land as you do on yours. If a Chumash indian knocked on your door and said that you are on his land, would you just up and leave? ;) Are you a "squatter"?

I am in a similar, but smaller, position as the Bundy's. I don't know how much land they own, but we own 10 acres totally surrounded by BLM and AZ state land. If I had more cattle than could graze on my land, I can pay a fee to allow them to graze on the government managed land. It's a win/win situation in that I could feed my cattle more cheaply and the wild grasses are kept mowed which lessens the likelyhood of wildfires.

LS

So ..... this rancher and his "supporters" think that decades of squatter-grazing automatically gives him the right to keep right on going feeding his cattle free off the tax payers' dime (i.e. off our land) and then selling his cattle to make a living just because he's been getting away with it for a long time?

I don't think so.

As for how long he's been doing it somehow giving him grandfathered rights, the American Indians had/have way, way, way more "rights" to U.S. land than he and his family does and it's ranchers like him who played a huge part in doing you know what to our Indian friends in the good-old 1700's and 1800's and 1900's and beyond.

I see that the groups that showed up to support him are now being labelled 'domestic terrorists'.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2014/04/17/reid-calls-supporters-of-nevada-cattle-rancher-domestic-terrorists/?hpt=hp_t2


Gary Haupt