Ford E450 q's

[camperdave]

I'm looking at used class C's in the 29-30 foot range (I want couch, dinette, and a walk around queen) and have narrowed my search to an older V10 rig due to cost factors. I am somewhat knowledgeable about the V10 as my current tow rig has an early version (1998 Van). I believe there were several updates in the early years, then Ford settled in with the same V10 that is still being used today in the E450's. I do not know exactly what year the final version went into service though! Somewhere between 2000 and 2003 I think.

My current thinking is to limit my search to whatever chassis will have the most current engine. Am I correct that from 200(0-3?) to point to today, there have been no further updates of the E450 V10? Is there a specific chassis year that can guarantee the most updated engine?

My other question is about the trans. I know the torqshift 5spd came out around 2005 (probably 2006+ motorhomes). I am of the thought that the 4R100 is 'good enough' and I'd let price/condition dictate the purchase at this point. As far as I am aware, the 5spd is most notable in its ability to downshift in the hills, and has lower 1-2 gears, but I believe final overdrive is the same as the 4R100. Agreed?

Final q - the 2008 update was just the front suspension/bodywork, is that right? Something this new would be a reach financially, I'm feeling like I'd rather have the older front end anyway (I think it looks better). Any other improvements to the updated (08+) E450 that are noteworthy?

Thanks for any advice!

[pianotuna]

Phil,

I'm pretty sure mine is a 2004 chassis. First sold in Jan 2005.

The Mix setting doesn't work with my air conditioner (I think it was you who said it might).

[pnichols]

pianotuna wrote:
My E-450 is from 2005 and has the four speed transmission. I'd look for the 5 speed.

Don ... are you sure you don't have a 2005 coach on a 2004 E450 chassis?

I've always read that the 5R110 5-speed transmission (actually 6 ratios, but with two ratios for one of it's "gears" being selected under computer control) was introduced with the 2005 chassis.

Our 2005 Class C has an E450 chassis, with it's 5R110 5-speed transmission, that was built in the fall of 2004.

[tatest]

I have a 2004 (2003 chassis) with the 4R100, and a 2013 van with the 4R70 (same gear ratios, with 5.4 V8 rather than 6.8 V-10). I've driven the 5R110 with 6,8 V-10 E-450 (rental trucks) about 800 miles in moderate mountain country, and have found it really performs no differently above about 30 mph (top three gear ratios are the same on all three transmissions, final drive will differ with GCWR).

Ford split the first gear into two ratios to accommodate the torque characteristics of the 6.0 Powerstroke, providing a "granny" first gear to raise GCWR for the smaller diesel. The V-10 gas engine in E-450 got a 2000 pound boost in GCWR, that could be relevant if you want to tow heavy.

The gear ratios in the 4-speed worked well for the V-10 for more than ten years, and same ratios on the predecessor transmission paired with a 7.5 V-8 that liked to run a lot slower.

I have no experience with the 6 speed. If the transmission splits the same overall range into six more closely spaced gears, that might help the diesel with its more narrow power band, but for the V10 I might prefer another level of overdrive, for those days when I have tailwinds.

If you are buying what you can afford, what you can afford is functional and adequate. Something newer might be a little better.

[camperdave]

pianotuna wrote:
Sooner or later parts become an issue with discontinued models. I had that happen with an E-350 6.9 liter diesel. (international actually)

camperdave wrote:

Piano - what do you not like about the 4 speed?

I daily drive a Saab. I'm good at finding hard to get parts!

[pianotuna]

Sooner or later parts become an issue with discontinued models. I had that happen with an E-350 6.9 liter diesel. (international actually)

camperdave wrote:

Piano - what do you not like about the 4 speed?

[camperdave]

One more question (I tried editing the above post, but captcha didn't let me or something?)

Are all early 2000's E450's California smog compliant? I'd assume yes, that they would build them all 50 state but wonder if it's something I'll need to check when buying out of state.

[camperdave]

So there's a 5 speed and now a 6 speed?

Piano - what do you not like about the 4 speed?

My 98 van with the 4R100 and 3.73's tows very well at 2500rpm in drive (od locked out) at around 62mph. My limited experience with a rental motorhome (2018) was that the RPM's at the same speed were similar, but in overdrive because of a lower rear end. The MH pulled starts and hills much better, I thought maybe just because of lower gearing as opposed to just having more gears.

I'm OK at 65mph, am in no rush in the hills, and honestly I'm not sure if i care whether I get 8mpg or 9... But I do really want reliability.

Totally agree with your list there j-d, I have no problem 'driving' the road and going with the flow of the terrain. I feel like the 4R100 is strong enough and probably not worth the extra $$ to go new enough to get the torqueshift. And if it did fail, I could get a strong rebuild for the cost difference of buying a few years older in the first place.

Condition is more important to me than age/mileage. Many of the ones I'm seeing in the 2003-5 range have around 80k miles which seems just about where I want to be. If maintained well, I'd be comfortable that something of that age would give me another 10 years of service. Seems like the E450 V10 motorhome chassis hit it's stride in 2001, I'm thinking anything past that is just refinement.

[j-d]

T18skyguy wrote:
...You eat up more in gas with the older transmission, 5 speed probably in the middle I suppose. It's not just the final ratio's that's important...

Might be able to help with that... In the Muscle Car Days, the transmissions that could handle Big Block/Trick Car/Heavy Foot were GM's TurboHydramatic 400, Chrysler TorqueFlite 727 and Ford's Cruise-O-Matic C6.

4R100 was the final derivative of C6, with the E4OD derivative in between. Snippets from Wikipedia:

First, a compliment to the C6: "widely used in off-road applications due to its reputation of being nearly indestructible"

Then, a fundamental C6 design drawback that bears T18's remark out: "a reputation of greatly reducing performance as well as fuel mileage, due to the amount of power it requires to operate"

Strong/Hungry Heritage in E4OD: "C6 core components were used to build Ford's first electronically controlled automatic transmission"

Then the 4R100: "this new transmission was the last rendition of the C6"

From owning and loving two Ford based Class C's, the first a 24-ft on an '83 E350 with 450 and that C6... Here are j-d's

TIPS FOR CO-EXISTING WITH 4R100:

1. GET OVER IT: We all hear "It's the Nature of the Beast." Well it IS a Beast and it has that C6 Nature. Still, behind the V10, 4R100 drags our 31-footer around at 10 MPH faster, 1 MPG better, longer, higher, wider and 3000# heavier...than the 460/C6 with the 24-footer

2. UNDERSTAND IT: 460 was a Lugger and C6 didn't have lockup let alone OD. V10 Powertrain Control Module wants to let'er rev, and commands the 4R100 to downshift to allow those revs.

3. ACCEPT IT: "Hi, I'm your 4R110, you had a Question?" Answer is always "Downshift!" Knowing this... Anything involving Cruise Control is downshift for any reason any time. You can accelerate a little with the pedal and re-set your speed. Hit "Accel" and it's downshift. Most "hills" on I-95 are simply overpasses and 4R will downshift on every one in Cruise unless I nudge speed up (with PEDAL, remember) in advance.

4. LET IT WORK: I was under driving the V10/4R package! Best results are simply NOT "just after it hits OD" or "slow lane" or "under 60." If conditions allow, it's around 65 MPH and that's good for a MoHo. Many less PCM-commanded downshifts and MPG no worse than the 55 I drove the 460.

5. WORK WITH, NOT AGAINST: Really hilly? That's what the OD OFF button's for. It ain't gonna blow up or wear out. C6 ran like that its whole life. Torque will be there. It'll climb, and unlike 460 it won't heat up.

6.GO RETRO: How were you taught to drive? I was taught to Look Ahead, to Anticipate, to Plan. Definitely NOT to hold the wheel while some RADAR said Stop or Go. ALL our vehicles had the C6 Nature and we drove accordingly. Speed up before a grade and know you'll slow before the crest.

7. ENJOY: The Drive is Part of the Fun! When we clear out of Flat Florida, the road curves, rises and falls. My vigilance goes up, but I'm comfortable. I sit straighter as tension melts away. I drive with the pedal and work within a speed range. I'm in the driver seat and the PCM is helper not master.

[T18skyguy]

If you can get a model year 2012 rig you could get the 6 speed Torqshift.(I think) The final drive ratio is a bit lower with the torqshift at .674 compared to .71 for the 4R100. I have a econoline with the 4R100 and the mileage is bad,but I do much better with the 6 speed. You eat up more in gas with the older transmission, 5 speed probably in the middle I suppose. It's not just the final ratio's that's important, but the rig can be in a much more appropriate gear going up those gas sucking mountains.

[theoldwizard1]

The 6R140 transmission is "bullet proof" ! It is used on F650/750.

[j-d]

Essentially same V10 in E450 since 2000.
TorqShift nicer than 4R100
New Six-Speed presumably nicer
2008 incorporated LARGER FRONT BRAKES and a better front sway bar
Somewhere along the line, eliminated the driveshaft parking brake in favor of "Drum in Hat" rear disks
Service brake is disk but parking brake has its own little drum within the rotor and a set of little brake shoes

[mbutts]

Hi,

Wikipedia has a pretty good page on the Econoline with engine, transmission, and model update info. You can also look up the V-10 there, too.

[pianotuna]

Hi,

My E-450 is from 2005 and has the four speed transmission. I'd look for the 5 speed.