Midlevel newer vs higher level older

[timjet]

Probably a question many people have to answer. Just getting opinions. Perhaps an example will help:
'11 Tiffin Phaeton 40 vs '07American Eagle 40/Fleetwood Revolution 40

Tiffin uses the Freightline chassis while Liberty is used in the other 2.

Weight carrying capacities are greater with the Fleetwoods. Should this even be a real concern?

Interior appointments seem about the same.

Newer is always better- less chance of having to fix things. But higher quality is better for durability.

Assuming an example in each coach meets your floor plan desires, and each coach checks out mechanically, what would you choose. Your gonna pay more for the newer coach of course, but looking for opinions.

[timjet]

As the OP I can conclude the answer to my question: Buy mid level newer or higher level older, IS: there is no right answer!

Buy newer and you may get more glitz than quality. But you get the latest safety features and financing may be easier. You may have to deal with a DPF and or DEF but most that have this feature say it's no big deal.

Buy older and the coach may have better weight carrying capacity, better insulation and a sturdier chassis, but you might not be able to get financing and when you sell the buyer will not either limiting your potential buyers. Over 12 years and the value may plunge. A good inspection is a must but still may not avoid expensive maintenance costs. Perhaps a warranty is a good idea but that ups the costs of ownership.

From you folks that have taken the time to participate in this discussion I get the feeling that you are all happy with your coach, mid level newer or higher level older. That's really good to hear.

[xctraveler]

This thread has gone off the rails onto engine specs and such like. The first consideration if there is a woman involved is floor plan. Most of us tend to spend significantly more time living aboard then driving down the road. Higher end interior construction and appointments are certainly important, although most mid to high level coaches of the type being considered are adequately built.

Our Phaeton does require DEF. I just drove 3,000 miles across the country and had to fill the DEF tank once, found a truck stop with room and not too busy so I could drive through an end island backwards to fill the tank direct from the pump at $2.79/gal, bought 6 gal and the tank still has about 12 gal (of 18). Not a big deal. I do carry a couple of gal in a jerrycan just in case and a small drill operated pump to transfer it. Used it once just for proof of concept.

Anything over five years old should have tires replaced. Buying used, unless the tires are under 3 years old I would consider new tires since I would have no idea how the prior owners cared for them. With an older coach get the tire sizes and verify you can get replacement tires, some sizes get phased out.

[Jayco-noslide]

I don't think you can compare this issue re: motor homes with cars. An older expensive car(BMW) might have some advantages over a newer less expensive car(Chevy Malibu) but it won't get better mileage or be less likely to need expensive repair or have better basic quality. Not the same with motor homes.

[Ivylog]

Actually it was Cummins that used credits from the their smaller engines with a different polution standard to sell there non-conforming larger diesel engines. Cat did not have any small engines to use credits from so they actually met the requirements with the assert technology but that technology gave a lot of trouble and decrease the MPG.

[John_Joey]

Also think about when you want to sell it. Most need a loan to buy a MH and banks are very fussy about how old a MH can be before they shell out money for one, just in case they need to repo it.

[Travlingman]

tropical36 wrote:

Travlingman wrote:

tropical36 wrote:

smlranger wrote:

Went for the 07 with an 06 engine, cuz I wanted a CAT, (no particular reason) along with having the last of the slobber tubes. No special reason and not even sure what Cummins did after that to comply and stay on the road, but definitely don't want to be buying DEF for now and probably never will at my age.

Beginning in 2007, Cummins went with the diesel particulate filter (DPF) to clean up emissions. I don't think they added DEF until about 2010?

That's interesting and really didn't know what they did to stay in the highway business.
I think CAT spent around a 1/2 billion on ACERT technogially, before saying goodbye and after the Gov. stepped things up a bit in the emission control dept.

The DPF is part of the system used to clean up exhaust. Cummins and the rest went to an EGR system. CAT tried and couldn't and is why they went out of on road diesel. Here is a little article about EGR technology, go about half way down for diesel. You will see it dumps junk back in the engine which is bad for it.

Diesel engine makers went to SCR(selective catalytic reduction) around 2011 or 2012 depending on credits they had to the government. There has not been as much trouble with the engines using this technology verses the EGR. SCR does use DEF, you put some in a tank, usually runs about a gallon to 1000 miles. This tells about SCR about 1/2 down for diesel.

I would say do a little reading on EGR technology verses SCR technology in diesels. Trucking industry had a lot of issues with EGR. Here is a good article on problems pre-SCR.

It's my understanding that the CAT pre 07 engine only uses ACERT technology, which is not the same as and actually an alternative to EGR and one of the reasons I went for it, so not sure if you're including the older CAT's here, like my 06, or not............
ACERT

No I didn't as I was only thinking of engines made after the 2007 emission standards went into effect which was a major change for the diesel industry. I am not sure, but don't think CAT was ever able to meet that requirement. Did this meet the new standard or did they use credits to use them?

[tropical36]

Travlingman wrote:

tropical36 wrote:

smlranger wrote:

Went for the 07 with an 06 engine, cuz I wanted a CAT, (no particular reason) along with having the last of the slobber tubes. No special reason and not even sure what Cummins did after that to comply and stay on the road, but definitely don't want to be buying DEF for now and probably never will at my age.

Beginning in 2007, Cummins went with the diesel particulate filter (DPF) to clean up emissions. I don't think they added DEF until about 2010?

That's interesting and really didn't know what they did to stay in the highway business.
I think CAT spent around a 1/2 billion on ACERT technogially, before saying goodbye and after the Gov. stepped things up a bit in the emission control dept.

The DPF is part of the system used to clean up exhaust. Cummins and the rest went to an EGR system. CAT tried and couldn't and is why they went out of on road diesel. Here is a little article about EGR technology, go about half way down for diesel. You will see it dumps junk back in the engine which is bad for it.

Diesel engine makers went to SCR(selective catalytic reduction) around 2011 or 2012 depending on credits they had to the government. There has not been as much trouble with the engines using this technology verses the EGR. SCR does use DEF, you put some in a tank, usually runs about a gallon to 1000 miles. This tells about SCR about 1/2 down for diesel.

I would say do a little reading on EGR technology verses SCR technology in diesels. Trucking industry had a lot of issues with EGR. Here is a good article on problems pre-SCR.

It's my understanding that the CAT pre 07 engine only uses ACERT technology, which is not the same as and actually an alternative to EGR and one of the reasons I went for it, so not sure if you're including the older CAT's here, like my 06, or not............
ACERT

[Travlingman]

tropical36 wrote:

smlranger wrote:

Went for the 07 with an 06 engine, cuz I wanted a CAT, (no particular reason) along with having the last of the slobber tubes. No special reason and not even sure what Cummins did after that to comply and stay on the road, but definitely don't want to be buying DEF for now and probably never will at my age.

Beginning in 2007, Cummins went with the diesel particulate filter (DPF) to clean up emissions. I don't think they added DEF until about 2010?

That's interesting and really didn't know what they did to stay in the highway business.
I think CAT spent around a 1/2 billion on ACERT technogially, before saying goodbye and after the Gov. stepped things up a bit in the emission control dept.

The DPF is part of the system used to clean up exhaust. Cummins and the rest went to an EGR system. CAT tried and couldn't and is why they went out of on road diesel. Here is a little article about EGR technology, go about half way down for diesel. You will see it dumps junk back in the engine which is bad for it.

Diesel engine makers went to SCR(selective catalytic reduction) around 2011 or 2012 depending on credits they had to the government. There has not been as much trouble with the engines using this technology verses the EGR. SCR does use DEF, you put some in a tank, usually runs about a gallon to 1000 miles. This tells about SCR about 1/2 down for diesel.

I would say do a little reading on EGR technology verses SCR technology in diesels. Trucking industry had a lot of issues with EGR. Here is a good article on problems pre-SCR.

[tropical36]

smlranger wrote:

Went for the 07 with an 06 engine, cuz I wanted a CAT, (no particular reason) along with having the last of the slobber tubes. No special reason and not even sure what Cummins did after that to comply and stay on the road, but definitely don't want to be buying DEF for now and probably never will at my age.

Beginning in 2007, Cummins went with the diesel particulate filter (DPF) to clean up emissions. I don't think they added DEF until about 2010?

That's interesting and really didn't know what they did to stay in the highway business.
I think CAT spent around a 1/2 billion on ACERT technogially, before saying goodbye and after the Gov. stepped things up a bit in the emission control dept.

[tropical36]

timjet wrote:
I think the Fleetwood Revolution series in the '07-'08 time frame is a close contender to the American Eagle. Again I think the Tiffin Phaeton is a step down. Tiffin did not make a 40' Bus 1.5 bath in'07-'08 which would be somewhat comparable to the Revolution and Eagle.

Ya know, I don't really think there's a lot of folks out there, that really know what the Fleetwood Revolution really is in those years.
About the only thing more you could do to it, would be to add more glitter and some fancy lighting for a wow factor. Not that it's perfect and without it's quirks, but then again, is there any out there without them.
As for the years, pre 05 and before the advent of the LE, the 05, 06 and 07 had the last of the over the road 400HP C9 CAT engines.
With 08 they were forced to go back with Cummins and since CAT bowed out of the highway business altogether.
Nothing wrong with a Cummins, however and they now have the market, like Ford has the gas chassis.

[smlranger]

Went for the 07 with an 06 engine, cuz I wanted a CAT, (no particular reason) along with having the last of the slobber tubes. No special reason and not even sure what Cummins did after that to comply and stay on the road, but definitely don't want to be buying DEF for now and probably never will at my age.

Beginning in 2007, Cummins went with the diesel particulate filter (DPF) to clean up emissions. I don't think they added DEF until about 2010?

[smlranger]

Floor plan is obviously important especially if you will spend much time in the coach.

As to the overall build quality issue, IMO many of the older high end rigs are more solid that many of the newer midline coaches. Only you can decide what is most important to you. For us, we chose a high end, one owner, well maintained 6 year old coach. Stuff still breaks and we've had some things to upgrade, but I believe the coach has better bones than much of the new stuff.

As to the comparison between a newer Phaeton and a mid 2000's Revolution, I would say the Revolution is a more solid coach. The key is look beyond the glitz, LED strip lighting, and other fluff that lures many buyers.

[tropical36]

timjet wrote:
Well I did buy a 7 yo Infinity and sold it when it was 15 yo. So maybe that's the kind of guy I am.

I probably won't finance unless my advisor tells me to, so probably won't have to worry about being older than 10 years. Thanks to Isaac about the info concerning the price drop at 12 years, all good info. And Mr Mark, good info too, thanks.

I'm kind of learning toward a '08 or '09 Revolution. Not a lot of the E models around, but they are there. A newer '11 Tiffin Phaeton with the rear bath will be easier to find but will cost 20-40k more.

I want to sell my boat first, but if one of the above at the right price came along, well ......

Quite a few REV's out there actually and I found ours immediately and within a 100 miles of our home.....

RV TRADER

RVT.COM

Went for the 07 with an 06 engine, cuz I wanted a CAT, (no particular reason) along with having the last of the slobber tubes. No special reason and not even sure what Cummins did after that to comply and stay on the road, but definitely don't want to be buying DEF for now and probably never will at my age.

[J-Rooster]

#1 with me would be floor plan that suits the family, next would be bang for the buck!