Newer RVs that are hard to winterize.....grrrrr

So today Ed and I wandered over to a Florida CW dealer to look at some new, smaller Class C's in the 22 to 24' size. It's been 3 years since we sold the trusty, entry-level 28' C we owned previously - the one where we could open the lower door and SEE how much water was in the fresh tank; and could access (easily) the pump to switch the 3-way valve so it would suck antifreeze directly from the bottle. We could winterize that thing in under 10 minutes - it was easy.

We were admiring the nice airy floorplan of a Thor Freedom Elite 23' - it was perfect, in my mind - and then in a flash of brilliance, I asked where the water pump was. We searched everywhere. Turning on the pump switch didn't help - the battery was disconnected it seems. Finally, our salesgirl went and got someone from the service department - he wasn't much help; but we all deduced that it *might* be between the outer wall and the freshwater tank under the screwed-down dinette seatbase. Assuming that was it - it was in an incredibly-awkward spot for a procedure that needs to be done at least once - or multiple times if you live in the north and use your RV :-( And if you spill antifreeze - it will be INSIDE the RV.

Hoping to get more insight - we moved over to the same make in a 22' length, and were stymied again. We moved to a Forest River Forester - a massive creature; and of course it had the winterizing system all set up and ready to go. But this particular dealer didn't have any small FR models on hand. I finally apologized to our salesgirl - she had been very helpful, but I told her that not being able to winterize the RV quickly and easily was a deal-breaker for us. I feel bad for the newbies who don't know to look for details like this.

I've been on RV.net for over a decade and have read many complaints about RV designs that make no sense from a utilization standpoint; and now I realize we're about to experience that, too. Ugh.

Are there any 21-to-25' entry-level Class C's with easy access to the water pump?? I'm perfectly capable of adding a 3-way valve to the intake of the pump for winterizing - I just need to get AT the pump to do it.

Deb

Class C

Johno02
Explorer
Nov 27, 2016
It probably would not be a good idea to take one to that dealer for winterizing... Hope none of those folks ever work on space systems.
Bumpyroad
Explorer
Nov 28, 2016
reminds me of when I was at the Gulf Stream (IIRC) factory looking at a unit and asked about the location of the water pump for access to winterize, etc.
the fellow showing me around couldn't find it, he got somebody from production out and he was no help. it ended being behind a standard compartment type door behind which was a metal plate that also had to be removed.

bumpy
Dusty_R
Explorer
Nov 28, 2016
We had an '03 24' Itasca Spirt, the dinette was in the back right corner, and the water pump and fresh water tank was under the dinette seats. You had to remove the table, seat cushions, and lift the ply-wood boards that cushions sat on, that was more of a bother than a problem, no tools were required.
All the low point drains were under there as well.

Dusty
The_Logans
Explorer
Nov 28, 2016
Which is why we stopped winterizing with anti-freeze... we now just drain the tanks and hot water heater, and blow out the lines with air. We keep the unit plugged in and put two small ceramic heaters in to keep the inside from freezing. The tech at the factory told us that freezing in not good for the LED TV screens.
Deb_and_Ed_M
Explorer II
Nov 28, 2016
Dusty R wrote:
We had an '03 24' Itasca Spirt, the dinette was in the back right corner, and the water pump and fresh water tank was under the dinette seats. You had to remove the table, seat cushions, and lift the ply-wood boards that cushions sat on, that was more of a bother than a problem, no tools were required.
All the low point drains were under there as well.

Dusty

That's what was going to need to be done on the Thor units - only now they have rather clever tables that either are tables or bed supports.... but removing it so you could get to the pump looked like it was going to be a challenge, if it was possible at all. If we bought one of those (for the right price, I can overcome anything....LOL!) I'd just remove the table permanently and install a pedestal table that can simply be lifted out of the way.

Since I don't know exactly what we'll wind up with (we'll probably buy one at an RV auction) - I'm mentally preparing myself for "surprises"
DownTheAvenue
Explorer
Nov 28, 2016
The Logans wrote:
we now just drain the tanks and hot water heater, and blow out the lines with air. We keep the unit plugged in and put two small ceramic heaters in to keep the inside from freezing.

Why go to the trouble of blowing out the water lines if you keep the unit heated?
The_Logans
Explorer
Nov 28, 2016
DownTheAvenue wrote:
The Logans wrote:
we now just drain the tanks and hot water heater, and blow out the lines with air. We keep the unit plugged in and put two small ceramic heaters in to keep the inside from freezing.

Why go to the trouble of blowing out the water lines if you keep the unit heated?

Some of the lines, like the low point drains, and the outside shower, don't get enough heat from the inside to keep from freezing. Don't ask me how I know... :o
DrewE
Explorer II
Nov 28, 2016
The Logans wrote:
The tech at the factory told us that freezing in not good for the LED TV screens.

The factory tech is feeding you a lot of phooey. Exposure to freezing temperatures has no effect on LCD screens (which is what the screen in an LED TV is--the LED part is the backlight) nor on LEDs. The picture quality might be pretty poor if you operated it when cold, and running it when it's cold and the inside is warm and condensation is likely might be a poor idea, but that's much different than always keeping it above freezing.

Televisions are transported in unheated trucks. Screens with identical technology are in use every day in car radios that regularly see cold temperatures and temperature swings.
Snowman9000
Explorer
Nov 28, 2016
If they haven't changed the water system, I'd say look at a small Sunseeker or Forester. Our 2014 2300 is 25 feet. It has the water pump behind a hinged internal hatch in the back wall of one of our exterior storage compartments. I had to add the 3 way valve though. One thing I don't like on ours is that to drain the cold water plumbing, I have to remove the water filter housing which is next to the pump. And that serves as the cold side drain. I guess since the filter housing would have to be emptied anyway, it makes some sense. But it runs all over the compartment floor, so that requires extra steps to empty the contents first, then dry it out, then put them back.
Lumpty
Explorer
Nov 29, 2016
My '11 Sunseeker 2300 has a proper low point drain valve, just ahead of the water pump accessed via the access door in that storage compartment behind the right rear wheels. The hot water drain is there too, although that requires getting underneath and unscrewing a plastic cap on the pex. Both drain lines are routed through the floor right next to the other, blue for the cold and red for hot.

Also, be careful about that water filter housing. Mine sheared off at the threads, fortunately just with a load of pink stuff in it and not with a full water tank. I just spliced in a piece of braided faucet plumbing line as I discovered it during an on-the-fly day-of-departure dewinterizing as I was rolling out on a mid-winter trip to Florida in January of '15.

And speaking of checking on exactly how full the water tank is, mine has a a screw plug access underneath the corner mattress, the intended use of the hole to turn the hot water heater bypass valves, but it also works for shining a flashlight in to check the volume in the clear tank, located adjacent to the hot water heater under the bed.