Forum Discussion
- How low does the flex bed drop in the 23B? the salesman seemed to think that it only dropped down to the top of the dinette backrests which would make it quite a climb up to the bed. if it dropped down to the seat cushions it would be a lot more practical. any feedback on how this unit succeeds or fails?
bumpy - SRJ,
I've read what you've lamented about concerning your Born Free. A lot of folks in the forums really brag-up their Born Free rigs. I feel for you as RV problems are the pits, since they're supposed to be for recreation ... not headaches. We looked at Born Frees when shopping before buying our new (then) ITASCA V10 Class C, but from what you say I guess we maybe lucked out by not going the Born Free route.
I agree with you on diesels with regards to heavy-duty applications. A Class C motorhome of course is a light-duty application in the diesel world and as such, the modern gas engines have advantages over diesels in this light-duty world here in the U.S., IMHO. What my BIL went through with his diesel rig I practically lived every minute of it with him as he went through it. He's now looking at Ford and RAM pickups with a tow trailer - after his sour experience with a supposedly quality diesel chassis and coach Class B combination.
I've shopped with him in some of his recent looking and what Ford, Chrysler, and GM are now doing with their gas engine development is amazing. They're power and torque is ultra smooth, vibration free, instantaneously on tap, and they idle very quietly inside and out. Along with these improved gas engine characteristics, it seems that in the gas world the engines are going up in mileage while in the diesel world as engineers try to duplicate these characteristics in light-duty diesel applications, diesel mileage is declining from what it used to be with the old diesel technology. Dakzuki wrote:
X 2mlts22 wrote:
Recently made diesels do not have the reliability of ones in the past, mainly due to emission standards. The particulate filters clog up, the DEF makes urea crystals, one is forced to use ultra-low sulfur diesel or else the engine will throw codes and go into limp home mode.
If this wasn't an issue, I'd probably go with the diesels, but with all the headaches reported with these new emissions requirements, I'd just go with a gasser. Less MPG, but fewer hassles. Plus, since a gasoline generator is smaller, quieter, and cheaper than a diesel generator, that is also a nice plus.
Not to say a diesel is great for MPG... but with all the added upkeep and things that can break added on these past few years, I get second thoughts of buying one.
I'll have to remind the high mileage Sprinter owners I associate with how unreliable their trucks have been.
The diesel engine is far superior to any gas engine in a heavy-duty application.
Hey, pnichols:
If you want know about unreliability, poor quality, and countless breakdowns and roof and side-seam leaks? You need go no further than my Born Free! At least I can tell about my coach firsthand, instead of hearsay.Dakzuki wrote:
I'll have to remind the high mileage Sprinter owners I associate with how unreliable their trucks have been.
Well, I sure don't have to remind my BIL - who bought a new Mercedes ("Sprinter") based Interstate Class B in 2009 and then finally sold it last spring because he was tired of the unreliability of both it's Mercedes diesel chassis and Airstream-built coach.
He also didn't like not being able to idle the diesel in it for long periods, either, because the propane generator in it was too loud to use for battery charging whenever he tried to camp in the shade. I even ruined a ~$200 jacket crawling underneath it in a rainstorm trying to fix something (... made more difficult by the low Mercedes/Sprinter chassis ground clearance). The Mercedes chassis was even becoming a threat to their safety because of an intermittent and immediate complete chassis (not coach) electrical system shutdown when going down the road a few times.
Everything has it's problems, but one does have to draw the line.mlts22 wrote:
Recently made diesels do not have the reliability of ones in the past, mainly due to emission standards. The particulate filters clog up, the DEF makes urea crystals, one is forced to use ultra-low sulfur diesel or else the engine will throw codes and go into limp home mode.
If this wasn't an issue, I'd probably go with the diesels, but with all the headaches reported with these new emissions requirements, I'd just go with a gasser. Less MPG, but fewer hassles. Plus, since a gasoline generator is smaller, quieter, and cheaper than a diesel generator, that is also a nice plus.
Not to say a diesel is great for MPG... but with all the added upkeep and things that can break added on these past few years, I get second thoughts of buying one.
I'll have to remind the high mileage Sprinter owners I associate with how unreliable their trucks have been.- FWIW, every bit of information I can get my hands on indicates that the later versions of Ford's V10 provide long life right up there with diesels.
If I was to buy a new 3/4 or 1 ton pickup for a TC or other stuff, I'd opt for the V10 in it due to several reasons - if it was still even available thanks to the diesel cultists thinking only diesel can pull.
(The V10 in my Class C has been superb - but I don't yet have 300,000 miles on it, either.) - Recently made diesels do not have the reliability of ones in the past, mainly due to emission standards. The particulate filters clog up, the DEF makes urea crystals, one is forced to use ultra-low sulfur diesel or else the engine will throw codes and go into limp home mode.
If this wasn't an issue, I'd probably go with the diesels, but with all the headaches reported with these new emissions requirements, I'd just go with a gasser. Less MPG, but fewer hassles. Plus, since a gasoline generator is smaller, quieter, and cheaper than a diesel generator, that is also a nice plus.
Not to say a diesel is great for MPG... but with all the added upkeep and things that can break added on these past few years, I get second thoughts of buying one. burlmart wrote:
If the diesel engine is several thousands of dollars more when buying new over the gas engine? No. However, if you are a used RV diesel buyer, perhaps yes.
Recent mpg trends are up in our chevy 6.0 L with last few tanks at or near 12 mpg. I convinced Martha that 65-75 mph was not necessary. So if Trend does only 14 mpg, is the diesel option worth it?
The reason I switched to diesel was because of a bump up in mpg, and the known durability and far fewer ignition problems with the diesel versus gas. This was decades ago, that includes the past three passenger cars - all diesel engined for over two decades. Old habits die hard. Is it (diesel) worth it to you? For mpg alone, probably not. If you're a cult-dieselhead, then yes.- Recent mpg trends are up in our chevy 6.0 L with last few tanks at or near 12 mpg. I convinced Martha that 65-75 mph was not necessary. So if Trend does ionly 14 mpg, is the deisel option worth it?
- So far, the ProMaster gasser vans are getting fairly decent MPG, as per the ProMaster forums, about 1-2 worse than a Sprinter. I'm guessing low teens for this motorhome, but I could be way off base.
