3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[packnrat]

after reading all the info on the chinese knock off units, i will just stick to my honda eu2000's, easy to move around and with a chain no problem with theft.

two eu2000 = more than enough juice to keep me happy (use only one most of the time) and easy on the back to move around, yes cost a lot more.

but if i were to have done differently i would have gone with the chinese......maybe.

[rustyfuryiii]

Camp, Forest, Camp!

Here's what I got from my dB to Watts Power Conversion Chart from Teledyne Microwave Engineering Corp

A 3dB increase equals double the previous power output. For example 60dB is equal to 1000Watts, and 63dB is equal to 2000Watts and 66dB is equal to roughly 3980watts.

58dB = 631Watts and 67dB = 5010Watts

I snagged this from "Howstuffworks.com"...

On the decibel scale, the smallest audible sound (near total silence) is 0 dB. A sound 10 times more powerful is 10 dB. A sound 100 times more powerful than near total silence is 20 dB. A sound 1,000 times more powerful than near total silence is 30 dB. Here are some common sounds and their decibel ratings:

Near total silence - 0 dB
A whisper - 15 dB
Normal conversation - 60 dB
A lawnmower - 90 dB
A car horn - 110 dB
A rock concert or a jet engine - 120 dB
A gunshot or firecracker - 140 dB

You're right, going up just a few dB is actually a grunch of sound!

rustyFuryIII

[77charger]

going to pick up a duro power tomorrow it appears to be the same as the powerwise3500,uses the juang dung motor,here are the specs they have in stock for 250 bucks they also have some 3000 watters 2800 continuos

1. 6.5HP Air Cooled OHV Engine

6.5HP, 196cc, Air Cooled, OHV, 4 stroke engine with Low oil shutoff.

2. Heavy Duty Steel Frame

Heavy Duty Steel Frame with four points fully isolated motor mounts for smooth & quiet

Operation.

3. Long 8-Hour Run Time

Long 8-Hour Run Time at full rated Output.

Long 9-Hour Run Time at 50% rated Output.

4. 3500W Surge

Max AC output: 3500W

Rated AC output: 3000W

5. 3.2 Gallon Fuel Tank With Gauge

All steel 3.2 gal. Fuel tank with ez-read gauge.

6. Decibel: 67 dBA

Super quiet muffler with spark arrestor reduces engine noise.

7. Full Power Panel

Full Power Panel with engine shutoff switch, voltmeter, circuit breaker & power outlets.

8. 2 Pole Single Phase Generator

2 fully protected 120V/60Hz power outlets.

Max Current 30A, PF: 1.0

9. Wheel /Handle Kit included

Two 5? Wheels & Handle Bar, operating instruction included.

Light weight: 100 lbs.

10. Idle control saves fuel

New tech throttle with idle control saves fuel & reduces noise.

11. Easily Run a variety of electric appliances & tools

Remote Areas, Construction sites, Outdoor Activites, Emergency Power.

12. One Year/1000 hr warranty for Residential

Three-Month/1000 hr Warranty for Commercial.

[VicT]

Empty spaces == Mark Krohn is the man I dealt with.
Elim International Inc.
298 Main St. (Suite 200)
Buffalo, New York 14202
(716) 566-9500 ext. 5890
(716) 853-3546 (fax)

[Emptyspaces]

My first thoughts were possibly a sudden increase in demand has taken a toll on QC. All the problems were related to the frame assembly none with the actual engine/gen assy. As far as performance it starts and runs well showing no problem pulling a 13.5K A/C. Ran 8.7 hours on the first tank pulling the A/C. After the first 10 hour break-in period I'm planning on trying Mobil1 Synthetic to see if that might can be extended slightly along with longer overall life.

The swelling fuelcap seal and the internal gauge seal surprised me. I suspect this is due to an outside supplier using an inferior grade material.

I sent an email to Tracey Vaughan requesting assistance on the 26th but still have not received a reply. If I can just get them to send me the parts I need I'll fix the problems.

Perhaps VicT can steer me toward the right person to contact. Sounds like they are a company that wants to foster good cutomer relations.

Oh, after reading the thread I was prepared to swap out the 110v outlet. Mine is cheesy too.

I'd like to thank professor95 for starting this thread and all the many contributors throughout. It's been a great subject.

[yates9]

After reading all of of these posts, I wanted to decide between the ELM3000, Power Pro 3500, and the Champion C46535. I chose the Champion, and am going to rewire it this weekend to have switchable 110V 30 Amp output, and standard 220V output. So far, I'm very satisifed with the quality, manuals, and phone support.
Thanks for everyone's feedback on their experiences.

[Dubman]

Emptyspaces wrote:

I'm wondering if other ELM3000 owners are seeing any similar problems or did I just get the one that rolled down the line at shift change?

No problems other than cheap 110v outlet which I replaced as the Prof recommended.. Roughly 30 hours on mine to this point.. You have to wonder if the increased demand for these units affected QC.. Hope they resolve your problem quickly!!

[professor95]

I'm wondering if other ELM3000 owners are seeing any similar problems or did I just get the one that rolled down the line at shift change?

Sounds like the same crew built your ELM3000 that built my 2005 Prowler Regal.

Maybe the Chineese workers are experiencing the same QQ issues as USA workers do!

But, seriously, I did not encounter any of those problems. My fuel cap doesn't leak, neither does the gas gauge. Everything was tight and nothing was missing. Mine was a well built piece of equipment.

[Emptyspaces]

OK, I admit it! I've lurked for sometime and was quite interested in the Chinese Generators because for One I've generally had good luck with these types of items since we have a local Harbor Freight and for Two, I'm really cheap...'er thrifty when it comes to something I only use infrequently. After reading all (now) 77 pages several times I decided the ELM3000 was what I needed. Ordered from the distributor through EBay and it arrived right on time. After unpacking I immediately noticed several problems so I gave it a complete going over noting the following:

Initial Unpacking Inspection:

1. Fuel tank bolts (engine end) loose due to no mounting nuts welded to pads. Corrected by installing nuts and tightening.

2. Overall about 30% of nuts and bolts loose including engine mount nut at air filter bracket only started on mount stud. Tightened loose hardware.

3. Engine ON/OFF Switch broken due to (red) toggle part separating from switch base due to loose fit.
Was able to reassemble switch but needs to be replaced.

4. Control Panel:
(a.) One circuit breaker missing screw. No threads in circuit breaker.
Circuit Breaker requires replacing.

(b.) Panel rear cover half installed, no lower tangs fastened, grommet not in cable hole.
Reinstalled cover.

(c.)Voltage selector switch - Both center terminal screws loose.
Tightened screws.

After 5 hours operation:

1. Fuel tank cap rubber seal severely swollen from contact with gasoline causing fuel leakage during generator transporting. Seal returned to normal size after drying overnight. Wrong type rubber for gas cap seal.
Improved seal from manufacturer needed.

2. Gas gauge leaking due to swelling of small rubber seal inside gauge. Can be seen swollen out of place in gauge window. Same problem with wrong type rubber.
I'm working on an alternate method of sealing the gauge as a replacement
gauge will likely have the same problem unless there is an improved part from the manufacturer.


I've sent an EMail to Tracey Vaughan several days ago but no reply yet. I'm hoping they can just send me the few parts I need.

I'm wondering if other ELM3000 owners are seeing any similar problems or did I just get the one that rolled down the line at shift change?

[VicT]

ib516 Thanks for your help in this process, I know our landed Canadian Cost are alot more than our US partners but still a great deal. I found a Toronto Company selling similar Knockoff Gens but they wanted between 8 & 9 hundred plus shipping. Looked like they were the same units under a different name. I dealt with Mark the warranty Guy and he has been very empathetic as well as resolution oriented.

[ib516]

VicT wrote:
Capt Ron Thanks for the advice. Yes this was shipped with oil in it. Elim has offered to replace this unit for a new one with no cost to me including shipping. I choose instead for them to give me a credit (very substantial) and buy another small 1000B instead. It is understood that the 3000 will not be under warranty and it is my responsibility to get it going. They will still send me the parts they ordered earlier in this process. I must say they have been wonderful at customer service and I would not hesitate to recommend this Company.

I will now have the 3000 for my trailer but also the lighter 1000B for camping projects where my air conditioner isn't needed.

Good deal. Good to hear they're looking after you. My generator that was shipped here to Canada was delivered today...to Ohio:E.

Turns out I was given an incorrect tracking number. I thought it was "out for delivery" awful fast:). Anyway, mine is still on the way (confirmed with correct tracking number), and a call to their 1-800 number (which works from Canada, some don't, and I talked to a real live person) was all it took. I too think they offer good customer service. I spoke to Tracey Vaughan (person in charge of internet sales).

[VicT]

Capt Ron Thanks for the advice. Yes this was shipped with oil in it. Elim has offered to replace this unit for a new one with no cost to me including shipping. I choose instead for them to give me a credit (very substantial) and buy another small 1000B instead. It is understood that the 3000 will not be under warranty and it is my responsibility to get it going. They will still send me the parts they ordered earlier in this process. I must say they have been wonderful at customer service and I would not hesitate to recommend this Company.

I will now have the 3000 for my trailer but also the lighter 1000B for camping projects where my air conditioner isn't needed.

[jjtor]

Freeman, I built a "noise box" for my junky generac "noise generator" and while it did cut down on the noise, it is such a hassle to take the genset and box that I am now buying a Kipor Yamaha knockoff for more then the Elim's but 60% less then the Yamaha and 2 db more. If you think you will need to use a box with the gen then wait a little longer and save a little more and get something else. Keep in mind that any type of box will need to move a substantial amount of air or the gen WILL cook itself (trust me on this one, been there now have a large fan on my box). The simple fact that there is now a large hole in the structure takes alot of the noise canceling out of it.

my 2 cents.

[Freeman2004]

Okay, I think this a fabulous thread with a huge amount of really usefull information. Can't say I Fully understand it all but it makes things much clearer. Sadly, I spent most of this work day reading this. Thank goodness my boss is on vacation!
Early on there was a lot of talk about non-square enclosures. Specifically about folding ones. It seems that this was dropped without any completion.
Has anyone actually built one? How did they do it and how much noise reduction did they see?
In my minds eye I see this 8 sided tepee structure made out of a light weight panel. Hinges at the joints that just fold back and stack up for storage.

[Capt-Ron]

VicT wrote:
Thanks for all the advice on my oil problem. I will let you know as I progress through this and answer some of your points:

3. Going back to my original posting the Oil cap/dipstick was tightened, allowing oil to come out during transport if it was not standing up correctly. I believe the oil drained out and every time the box was moved it ended up running all over the outside of the engine. There seemed to be a fair amount in the air cleaner. How could it have gotten inside there. Is it possible if the unit sat upside down for a long period of time that oil could have saturated through the cylinder into both the airbox and the muffler.
4. I do think that there is oil in the muffler as it is when the muffler gets hot then the smoke gets real bad.

I think this unit will be ok and I plan to run it till the smoking stops on Wednesday evening. Or I could run it here and tell my neighbors I bought a fancy new misquito fogger.

The oil can definately get into the air cleaner and muffler through the cylinder if the valves are both partially open and the unit is upset. Do they ship these units with oil in them? All the ones that I've seen were dry and the customer had to fill it. My point is that shipping with the oil filled leads to just the problems that you are having.

Try running the unit without the air filter so that there is unrestricted air flow. Running it for a short time won't hurt it. The foam element is supposed to be saturated in oil but too much will result in excessive smoking, squeeze as much oil out of the foam as possible before reinstalling.

Oil in the muffler shouldn't be too hard to correct either. They are easy to remove and you can tilt it and work it around to drain any oil out of it. Then pour in acetone to rinse out the rest of the oil and let the muffler sit overnight to let all of the acetone evaporate before reinstlling the muffler or running the generator.

This should clear up your smoke problem but that may not be the end of it. Running the generator with this much oil available in the cylinder can prevent the piston rings from seating resulting in low compression, blowby, and oil burning (just what you need right now). So it's important to get this problem under control ASAP!!! When you get the generator to run clean then place it under the most lod it will handle and run the heck out of it to seat the rings.

Hopefully you won't have any more trouble with it.

Capt Ron