RAM 2500 - Hemi 6.4 vs Cummins - payload vs towing stability

[fugawi]

i know there have been other threads discussing towing capabilities and other pros/cons of the Hemi 6.4 vs the Cummins TD.

I would appreciate some input on whether you would prefer to have:

1. The extra payload of the Hemi, which is 3,280 lb, or about 880 lbs greater than the 2,360 lb payload of the Cummins; or

2. The extra towing stability of the Cummins, which weighs about 700+ lb more than the 6.4.

(Both assume 2500 4x4 Crew Cab with 6'4" bed,)

Either truck will handle my trailer fine. Current trailer is 4,400 lb loaded 19' bumper pull trailer. I might end up with a 9,000 lb loaded 30' bumper pull trailer.

However, I was thinking if I ever have six passengers and gear and the tongue weight, I might be pushing the 2,360 lb payload of the Cummins. In that case the extra payload capacity of the Hemi 6.4 would be nice.

On the other hand, most trips will be well under the 2,360 lb payload of the Cummins, and the extra 700+ lbs on the tow vehicle combined with the power of the Cummins would probably provide a more stable driving experience while towing?

A third option is a 3500 with Cummins which covers both payload and towing stability. However, I would prefer the ride of the 2500 for the 90% of driving time that will be unloaded.

Any insight would be appreciated!

P..S. Do you think either 2500 setup would drive well just dropping on the 4,400 lb trailer without weight distribution or sway control.

[transamz9]

Cummins12V98 wrote:

transamz9 wrote:

Cummins12V98 wrote:

gtsum wrote:
I personally dont care which would be faster from 0-60 towing. Diesels pull better, with better MPG loaded up as well as empty, and with greater ease than a gasser. They simply do a better job pulling loads and I dont see how anyone could argue the point? Sure they cost more money..who cares? They do the job better and more easily...at least for me. If you are happy with the gasser, more power to you..I just prefer diesel all the way around:)

Totally agree! See above pic. Same load with a 6.4???

You would be looking at Ib's tail lights the whole way Cummins. Sorry to break it to ya but it's the truth.

I have nothing to back up what I said but I really don't see a 6.4 with 3:42 gears pulling a several mile 6% grade doing it at 55mph with a combined load of 29K.

The pic was at 4,300'.

Other opinions?

It's really going to be determined by where the transmission would settle in. There could be places that a 3:23 rear gear would pull a grade faster than a 3:42. Same with a 3:73 to 4:10. It's really going to be determined by where the transmission can keep the engine in it's RPM range.

[transamz9]

FishOnOne wrote:

transamz9 wrote:

Cummins12V98 wrote:

gtsum wrote:
I personally dont care which would be faster from 0-60 towing. Diesels pull better, with better MPG loaded up as well as empty, and with greater ease than a gasser. They simply do a better job pulling loads and I dont see how anyone could argue the point? Sure they cost more money..who cares? They do the job better and more easily...at least for me. If you are happy with the gasser, more power to you..I just prefer diesel all the way around:)

Totally agree! See above pic. Same load with a 6.4???

You would be looking at Ib's tail lights the whole way Cummins. Sorry to break it to ya but it's the truth.

I would have to disagree... Watch this video of the 6.4 Ike Gauntlet around 13:50 where a diesel pulling a camper simply flies by the 6.4. Also the when the truck drops down to 1st gear it becomes painful to watch. I think we all know any diesel powered truck would be the better performer here.

Link

Or when the 6.4 Hemi is powering a 4500 truck loaded is reported being sluggish. There's no cummins comparison, but I'm willing to bet the cummins would again outperform the Hemi when handling heaving loads.

Link


Now if we are talking 2500 unloaded trucks (notice I'm comparing light trucks) I could see a 6.4 Hemi outperform a cummins.

Yeah that first video the diesel truck did blow right by but he should pulling a load probably 4-5,000# less. Did the diesel have a tuner?

[jrp26789]

I have never had it either. I drove an 88 chev dually with a big block to Tx 6 yrs ago. I was towing heavy averaging 6 mpg. 4 with a head wind. 2 20 gallon tanks and I had no issues with fuel stop stress. Upside no one had to wait to use the bathroom.

[bigcitypopo]

Mickey_D wrote:
One thing that most people don't consider is fuel range stress. I have a 2014 Cummins Ram 2500 and an overweight LaCrosse 329 TT and after about 175 miles I start getting fuel anxiety. I know that I can always find fuel, but unless it is a full blown truck stop it is a******shoot whether or not I can get to the pumps. At least with a diesel I can easily add an in-bed auxiliary tank and have one less thing to worry about. Before anyone chimes in that they have to stop that often for bathroom and coffee breaks, I do travel with wife, kids, and dogs and someone ALWAYS has to go. It is just so much easier to find a place for a quick stop (and better coffee) than a crowded gas station. With a gas truck the only option is replacing the stock tank with one that is a little bigger for a lot more money or even carrying a bunch of jerry cans in the back - not my favorite thing to do.

fuel range stress... lol never had that. but... i have my stops planned before i leave the house.

[Mickey_D]

One thing that most people don't consider is fuel range stress. I have a 2014 Cummins Ram 2500 and an overweight LaCrosse 329 TT and after about 175 miles I start getting fuel anxiety. I know that I can always find fuel, but unless it is a full blown truck stop it is a******shoot whether or not I can get to the pumps. At least with a diesel I can easily add an in-bed auxiliary tank and have one less thing to worry about. Before anyone chimes in that they have to stop that often for bathroom and coffee breaks, I do travel with wife, kids, and dogs and someone ALWAYS has to go. It is just so much easier to find a place for a quick stop (and better coffee) than a crowded gas station. With a gas truck the only option is replacing the stock tank with one that is a little bigger for a lot more money or even carrying a bunch of jerry cans in the back - not my favorite thing to do.

[jrp26789]

I have had several vehicles that did not perform at full throttle as they did at 3/4. The Ike test is flawed because it was held to the rug. Let off a touch and I bet it performed better. I have owned multiple trucks on this road to my current setup. Truck camper in a 98 ram with the cummins. Dually with a hemi in 04. Several 1/2 tons with small 5th wheels. And now a ram 2500 with the 6.4. If I was full timing I would have sprung for the cummins. For weekend warrior use with the family a gasser saved me 8200. The fuel mileage no longer rewards with the increased cost in diesel. Further I just sold my 2012 ram 1500 hemi for 4000 less than I paid new. So I guess a hemi holds its resale as well. I don't keep them long enough for mechanical issues. I don't like repairs. I just eat the depreciation and enjoy my weekends not doing repairs.

[ib516]

The reason I posed the question is because, as some of you know, I have tested it. At 2000 feet above sea level, they were both about 22 seconds 0-60 towing the same 14k 5er on the same road. Surprised me and the guy who owns the Cummins powered truck.

If there are any doubters, I can post the videos again, and you can see for yourself.

My point is that the performance isn't as vastly different as some would have you believe to justify why they bought what they bought. About the only negative reviews I've ever seen have both been posted in this thread. I haven't driven a 4500 series RAM, let alone one with a Hemi, nor have I towed with my truck at 10,000 feet plus above sea level, so I don't have any negative experiences like in those two videos.

It appears, from the reply by RAM engineers about the Ike Gauntlet test, that there is specific software designed in to cause the truck to perform the way it did. Why? I have no idea. I haven't experienced that "power limiting/rpm limiting" with my towing up to 8000 feet. I guess if I ever head to Colorado, I might experience it. There must be a reason they programmed it that way.

Will a diesel pull heavy loads in higher elevation better than a big gas engine (like the 6.4L Hemi)? Yes.

Is opting for the diesel always the best choice for everyone who tows no matter what? No.

There are choices, and everyone has to decide what works for them.

[Cummins12V98]

jabsue wrote:
We have a 2012 3500 High Output Diesel 4 X 4. I am getting about 12.5 mpg around town. On our trip from Las Vegas to Michigan I got approximately 11 mpg pulling my 2013 Sundance 26' 5th wheel.

I am not exactly pleased with either of the mileages. I am actually considering trading for a Hemi as the price of gasoline is so much cheaper.

Any thoughts? My wife personally thinks the diesel will have more "get up and go" when going through the mountains.

Your wife is correct and she will also not like a gasser screaming at her when climbing.

She really won't like when your brakes start to overheat and your knuckles are turning white with the death grip on the steering wheel as you contemplate using the run away lane!

Gassers have their place it's just not pulling heavy loads.

[Cummins12V98]

transamz9 wrote:

Cummins12V98 wrote:

gtsum wrote:
I personally dont care which would be faster from 0-60 towing. Diesels pull better, with better MPG loaded up as well as empty, and with greater ease than a gasser. They simply do a better job pulling loads and I dont see how anyone could argue the point? Sure they cost more money..who cares? They do the job better and more easily...at least for me. If you are happy with the gasser, more power to you..I just prefer diesel all the way around:)

Totally agree! See above pic. Same load with a 6.4???

You would be looking at Ib's tail lights the whole way Cummins. Sorry to break it to ya but it's the truth.

I have nothing to back up what I said but I really don't see a 6.4 with 3:42 gears pulling a several mile 6% grade doing it at 55mph with a combined load of 29K.

The pic was at 4,300'.

Other opinions?

[FishOnOne]

transamz9 wrote:

Cummins12V98 wrote:

gtsum wrote:
I personally dont care which would be faster from 0-60 towing. Diesels pull better, with better MPG loaded up as well as empty, and with greater ease than a gasser. They simply do a better job pulling loads and I dont see how anyone could argue the point? Sure they cost more money..who cares? They do the job better and more easily...at least for me. If you are happy with the gasser, more power to you..I just prefer diesel all the way around:)

Totally agree! See above pic. Same load with a 6.4???

You would be looking at Ib's tail lights the whole way Cummins. Sorry to break it to ya but it's the truth.

I would have to disagree... Watch this video of the 6.4 Ike Gauntlet around 13:50 where a diesel pulling a camper simply flies by the 6.4. Also the when the truck drops down to 1st gear it becomes painful to watch. I think we all know any diesel powered truck would be the better performer here.

Link

Or when the 6.4 Hemi is powering a 4500 truck loaded is reported being sluggish. There's no cummins comparison, but I'm willing to bet the cummins would again outperform the Hemi when handling heaving loads.

Link


Now if we are talking 2500 unloaded trucks (notice I'm comparing light trucks) I could see a 6.4 Hemi outperform a cummins.

[Turtle_n_Peeps]

crcr wrote:
I'd like to hear some reports of how the 6.4 tows heavy at serious elevations. I live at 1100' and routinely drive to and camp at elevations from 7000 to 9200 feet, and there is a lot of up and down before getting to 9000+ feet. I am impressed with the 6.4 Hemi, but would be curious how much power loss it experiences at those elevations. My Ram diesel of course is unaffected by the altitude.

You're going to lose about 3%/ thousand feet. Just do the math and you will know how much you will lose at what altitude.

[Rich1961]

crcr wrote:
I'd like to hear some reports of how the 6.4 tows heavy at serious elevations. I live at 1100' and routinely drive to and camp at elevations from 7000 to 9200 feet, and there is a lot of up and down before getting to 9000+ feet. I am impressed with the 6.4 Hemi, but would be curious how much power loss it experiences at those elevations. My Ram diesel of course is unaffected by the altitude.

Here you go.

[crcr]

I'd like to hear some reports of how the 6.4 tows heavy at serious elevations. I live at 1100' and routinely drive to and camp at elevations from 7000 to 9200 feet, and there is a lot of up and down before getting to 9000+ feet. I am impressed with the 6.4 Hemi, but would be curious how much power loss it experiences at those elevations. My Ram diesel of course is unaffected by the altitude.

[bigcitypopo]

Both trucks have a 100k power train warranty... Repair costs are nill....

If you tow, and tow hills... Diesel and exhaust brake period... I pay no more in fuel then I did with my gasser...

My trailer is 8000 lbs 30ft long... And a dream to pull.