Weights - why different reported numbers for the UVW??

[mlayton]

I am so confused about the variation of these reported weights. We are looking to purchase our first TT (as some may have seen from my other post). We have a Ford Expedition EL which has a tongue weight of 890#. We prefer to stay at the conservative end of our weight capacity of loaded 5930-6850 (based on the 13-15%). This puts at an ideal loaded weight of 5930#.

Here is the issue, we are seeing ranges for your "stuff" advising to allow 500# to, on this forum advising more like 1000# (quite a range). In addition, I simply do not understand when I look up a model, like the Lance 2185 and it says the UVW is 3930#, and then I see 2 dealer videos quoting 4250 & 4300#. I don't understand the variation??? I'm seeing this all the time - the Surveyor 291 quotes a uvw of 4423# and then the dealer you tube video quotes the same model at 5300# - now a unit we would not consider. With trying to get a queen and 2 bunks for kids, many models hover in a close range for us on weights so to have numbers just 300-800# in some cases seems like a lot. How do we even narrow it down when weights jump like this? Are they adding stuff?

Now, second question is: is it even necessary for us to try to stay to that more conservative weight number or are we truly OK as long as we land in that 13-15% range? What happens if we push towards to higher number but do not exceed it??? Is the handling just******or is it actually dangerous or painfully slow to get anywhere?

[jrichard]

brulaz brings up the excellent point that your limiting factor is likely your payload capacity...not the weight rating of the hitch itself.

[Mickeyfan0805]

Congratulations on doing your research first. As mentioned earlier, you would be best to start by getting a better handle on your payload. That is, 9 times out of 10, the most limiting factor for a 1/2 ton SUV. Once you know your available payload (after loading gear, passengers, etc...) you'll be able to determine the maximum LOADED trailer you can pull.

[John___Angela]

jrichard wrote:
A couple of things: First, keep in mind that a weight distributing hitch typically transfers +/-20% of the tongue weight back to the trailer axles...so you probably have a little more room than you think.

Second, IMHO, looking at GVWR might be the worst way to judge your loaded weight. GVWR is unloaded weight plus cargo carrying capacity. Most here will agree the greater your CCC the better because it represents stronger frame, brakes, suspension and wheel/tire components. Most will also agree GVWR has little to do with your towed weight.

Take two trailers that weigh unloaded 4000lbs each, one with a CCC of 1000lbs and one with a CCC of 3000lbs....so GVWR of 5000lbs and 7000lbs respectively. Using GVWR in your situation, you would choose the "lighter" trailer and end up buying a likely inferior product for no logical reason.

Outside of weighing the unit, the yellow sticker is your best guide. It shows the factory weight typically including factory installed options. Add to that the weight of a battery and propane. If you're ordering your unit, you can get the sticker weight from other units in stock that are similarly equipped.

For your towed weight, and your gear and decide if you want to include water/waste tanks. This is obviously a guess and depends on you. For short trips, I figure my number is 1000 lbs. For longer trips or ones where I carry water, I figure 1500lbs and I think those estimates are very conservative.

FWIW, my personal experience is going from an "ultra light" with a CCC of 1005 lbs to a trailer with a CCC of 3000lbs. On the first trailer, loaded with 1000 lbs, I was on the edge on my tire capacity. My current trailer has tire capacity to spare. Same with the axle ratings. And since the axles are bigger, my brakes are larger and, even with the additional unloaded weight of the new trailer, they are noticeably stronger. Another benefit I did not anticipate: since the new trailer has a bigger frame (8" v 6") there is less flex which equals less bouncing/movement when camping.

The only downside: the unloaded weight is greater on the new trailer. And that's the point...the unloaded weight (plus what you add) is the important part. If I looked only at GVWR, I wouldn't have bought the new trailer even though it is within my towing limits when loaded how I use it.

If you want to simplify your search, take published UVW and add 1500lbs. You'll likely never carry 1500lbs and that gives room for options, battery, and propane.

Agreed. GVWR is your friend. The larger the number the better. GVWR has nothing to do with the the weight of the trailer. It is a rating not a weight. Look for trailers with high ratings, not low ratings. If you want to know what the trailer weighs loot at the UVW ON THE TRAILER, not on the brochure. After that use realistic numbers for cargo and come up with a reasonably close loaded weight (otherwise known as GVW...NOT GVWR) If you have doubts on the UVW number listed then have the dealer drive it over the scales and weigh the tongue. Simple procedure.

Good luck in your search. Happy trails.

[brulaz]

mlayton wrote:
I got the 890# tongue weight directly off the sticker on the class IV hitch for a weight distributing hitch rating as well as double checked the numbers agains the Ford site.

Several dealers have advised we rent a unit close to the weight we are considering and see how it feels. Thoughts on this?

OK, so that's a maximum. I assumed it was based on your vehicle's payload. Do you know what that is?

My truck's payload, based on the yellow sticker on the door jamb is 2045#. After adding me, my wife and all our gear (kayaks, Leer cap, hitch, junk), that is reduced to about 1000#. That's the max tongue weight I can put on the truck according to its payload.

According to the hitch label I can put 1050# max tongue weight on it if using a WDH, but only 500# if not.

[mlayton]

I got the 890# tongue weight directly off the sticker on the class IV hitch for a weight distributing hitch rating as well as double checked the numbers agains the Ford site.

Several dealers have advised we rent a unit close to the weight we are considering and see how it feels. Thoughts on this?

[brulaz]

You say your truck can handle a trailer with 890# tongue weight.

Not sure how you came up with that, presumably you took into consideration all the people, gear and WDH in the truck, but ok, let's take that.

And you say you want a trailer with at least 13% of the loaded weight on the tongue. ok, that's a good choice to keep sway under control. I would go as low as 12%, but 13% is better.

So your max *loaded* trailer weight should be 890/0.13 or 6846#.
If you pack 1000# then the max *unloaded* or dry weight of your future trailer should be about 6846 - 1000 = 5846#.

Yes, a WDH will move some of that tongue weight back to the trailer, but I prefer to leave that out and treat it as a safety cushion in the calculations.

Do your own calculations, estimate a reasonable amount of personal weight and ignore any high pressure sales person. I've met good and bad ones. And some really, really bad ones.

[mlayton]

Thank you for all the feedback, that makes sense. I just don't want to get something that it "too big" or dangerous to tow. I just got off the phone with a KZ dealer and I think I'm more confused. He owns an Expedition and is telling me we can get a much larger trailer than we are looking at. With a class IV hitch and the V8 engine, he said we could approach 7000# towing (which we wouldn't, but he's saying we could). He said as long as we don't exceed the Dry Hitch Weight of the model we are looking at and the overall tow weight is rated for our TV, I believe 8700# - we are fine. He said with our truck, he would show us the KZ Sportsman 280BH with an UVW of 5450, a dry hitch weight of 680# and a GVWR rating of 7000#. He says we would have NO TROUBLE towing this and he sells it to people all the time with not as powerful a TV as ours. He said the ride is actual smoother on the heavier TT and the ride nicer (slow, but nicer). Even loaded with 1000#, he said we are well within our ranges and totally safe. So who is right? He says we are looking smaller and simply don't need to - get what we want since our TV can handle it. We really liked that Jayco White Hawk which is in the same weight ranges.

I personally think they try to make this as confusing as possible for a newbie! It's scary to think about pulling 7000# behind you.

[jrichard]

A couple of things: First, keep in mind that a weight distributing hitch typically transfers +/-20% of the tongue weight back to the trailer axles...so you probably have a little more room than you think.

Second, IMHO, looking at GVWR might be the worst way to judge your loaded weight. GVWR is unloaded weight plus cargo carrying capacity. Most here will agree the greater your CCC the better because it represents stronger frame, brakes, suspension and wheel/tire components. Most will also agree GVWR has little to do with your towed weight.

Take two trailers that weigh unloaded 4000lbs each, one with a CCC of 1000lbs and one with a CCC of 3000lbs....so GVWR of 5000lbs and 7000lbs respectively. Using GVWR in your situation, you would choose the "lighter" trailer and end up buying a likely inferior product for no logical reason.

Outside of weighing the unit, the yellow sticker is your best guide. It shows the factory weight typically including factory installed options. Add to that the weight of a battery and propane. If you're ordering your unit, you can get the sticker weight from other units in stock that are similarly equipped.

For your towed weight, and your gear and decide if you want to include water/waste tanks. This is obviously a guess and depends on you. For short trips, I figure my number is 1000 lbs. For longer trips or ones where I carry water, I figure 1500lbs and I think those estimates are very conservative.

FWIW, my personal experience is going from an "ultra light" with a CCC of 1005 lbs to a trailer with a CCC of 3000lbs. On the first trailer, loaded with 1000 lbs, I was on the edge on my tire capacity. My current trailer has tire capacity to spare. Same with the axle ratings. And since the axles are bigger, my brakes are larger and, even with the additional unloaded weight of the new trailer, they are noticeably stronger. Another benefit I did not anticipate: since the new trailer has a bigger frame (8" v 6") there is less flex which equals less bouncing/movement when camping.

The only downside: the unloaded weight is greater on the new trailer. And that's the point...the unloaded weight (plus what you add) is the important part. If I looked only at GVWR, I wouldn't have bought the new trailer even though it is within my towing limits when loaded how I use it.

If you want to simplify your search, take published UVW and add 1500lbs. You'll likely never carry 1500lbs and that gives room for options, battery, and propane.

[beemerphile1]

To simplify your research ignore the UVW. Look only at the GVWR of the trailer. If you can tow the GVWR, you can tow the trailer. It isn't a perfect method but it is simple and it works.

[brulaz]

Yes, use the yellow sticker UVW 'cause that includes all the options.

Lance and Trailmanor (my trailer's manufacturer) are pretty bad in that they don't include any options in their catalogue weights. Even if the "options" are standard/required. So the real weight can be 500# heavier (or more) than the catalogue UVW weight. Many other manufacturers are better.

But to estimate our future trailer's GVW, I don't use the GVWR, because some manufacturers, such as Artic Fox, have huge payloads 3000-4000#, way more than we will use. I start with the Yellow sticker UVW then add our personal payload.

We typically pack 1000# when we go to Florida for two months. When I go by myself on shorter trips, that drops to 500#. That doesn't include water, just stuff we've accumulated over the years. With time, you'll figure out what your personal payload is. It does tend to increase over time so plan ahead.

[goducks10]

The UVW listed in brochures is for standard items on the TT. After extra items are added like an elec awning, changes in furniture etc, then the TT is weighed at the factory and a sticker is placed on the door. That sticker is the official UVW of the unit. That's why the ones in the video are heavier than the ones in the brochure. Options that are listed in the brochure changed the weight. If you know what you add for gear then you can safely add that weight to the TT's sticker weight and you will be close to your camping weight. However if you have never camped in an RV before then you will have know idea what you will need. IMO adding 1,000lbs to the stickered weight is safe. If you add less then fine, but chances are you won't add all that much more. If your that close on weight that 500lbs makes or breaks it then you need to down size the TT or upgrade the TV. You don't want to be in a situation where you can't take the things you want to because your over weight in the TT or the tow vehicle.

[hmknightnc]

Your question and observation is exactly why most people (including me) don't even look at UVW. It means nothing in the style TT you are looking for. With the wieght limits and style TT you are looking for the Cargo Carrying Capacity (CCC) of the trailer is going to be pretty low any way.

Look for a TT with a GVWR of around 6,000# (don't worry about a couple hundred pounds over) and a CCC of say at least 750# if your talking about vacations and not extended trips.