bpconversion goose neck conversion

Mmaxed wrote:
It sure sounds like you are light on tongue weight now. As you said a fifth wheel/goose neck should have 25% of the weight on the pin. If you are light now, how will you ever have the weight you need with the conversion? A fiver with too light pin weight is just as bad as a bumper pull.

correct

all that is based on not having weighed it personally and simply going off the manufacturer's word. currently at 16%..... supposedly.

if i move the spares to the nose along with the tool box i just added to the nose, that will possible add 300 lbs to the tongue. which would set me at 21% ( empty, rather then 16% current) but at what point is a bumper hitch tongue heavy w/o a load. my hitch will handle it but will others? i wont keep it forever so i have to be mindful about mods. the issue is when loaded, specifically loaded with my sand rail pulled in rather then backed in. that is when it comes up tongue light and its not fun. i have not tried with it backed in. that is more difficult to do then one would think. my rear track width is 10" wider then the front and would require scab wheels to get it narrower. it would also need to be winched in as it would be a tight fit side to side! :) definatley doable but i would pre fer to avoid it if possible. it would appear that will be what i need to try next though as it might be the simpler rt.

so the GN conversion would all but remove sway, a definate positive there, but i also wonder if it's 350lb dead weight adds to tongue weight? i would think so because if it was bolted to it , detached from the truck, it should still register as tongue weight? i have never used one so i asked. they are bolt on and can be trasferred so thats a plus . moving axles would be an option but if i ever move on to another toyhauler then moving the axles would difficult to undo where the GN would not.

Grit dog wrote:
The lack of quotes is confusing, but anyway….
You’ll gain most of the contraption weight on the pin weight and a bit less of the actual trailer weight, so won’t gain a whole lot of pin weight.
Whoever said too much tongue weight can cause sway as well is partially kinda right. But generally it’s only when the tow vehicle is quite under sized and under sprung.
Sure would be nice to be able to demo one. That’s a lot of coin for something that may help you.

I’d move the axles back for way less money ifn I “had” to correct the problem and could t do it by shuffling gear around.

the lack of quotations was my fault. i cut it down so it wasn't as large of a response and that isn't easy to do on a cell phone or at least for myself it isn't.

that is exactly what i have been wondering........where will the weight of the gn be or will it even add weight to the tongue. it has to add some and it would appear that the majority of the weight would be behind the tail gate, so i would assume it would be on the tongue. no matter what, if the trailer is detached from the truck, that 350 lbs will show up on a scale as tongue weight. so is it a true addition to tongue weight when considering a load behind the axles acting against it? i truly have no idea.


i agree, i wish i could demo it but thats not an around the block demo, i would need a couple hundred miles , loaded with my sand rail to know for sure.

read about tongue heavy and had a friend warn me about it years ago.

It sure sounds like you are light on tongue weight now. As you said a fifth wheel/goose neck should have 25% of the weight on the pin. If you are light now, how will you ever have the weight you need with the conversion? A fiver with too light pin weight is just as bad as a bumper pull.

The lack of quotes is confusing, but anyway….
You’ll gain most of the contraption weight on the pin weight and a bit less of the actual trailer weight, so won’t gain a whole lot of pin weight.
Whoever said too much tongue weight can cause sway as well is partially kinda right. But generally it’s only when the tow vehicle is quite under sized and under sprung.
Sure would be nice to be able to demo one. That’s a lot of coin for something that may help you.

I’d move the axles back for way less money ifn I “had” to correct the problem and could t do it by shuffling gear around.

so based on your description, you are grossly under weight on the hitch.

More weight on the hitch is almost always good so long as you don't overload the truck weight limits.

I'm not sure what this contraption will do. How much does it weigh and where is it's center of gravity? Moving the hitch further forward will reduce hitch weight but the weight of the contraption might counter that. You are still likely going to be light on the hitch.

Definitely get it weighed before putting a Band-Aid on that may or may not do anything.

According to their site it weighs 350 lbs. Just Looking at it, i would say most of that will be over tongue or atleast behind the tailgate.

The hitch on my truck is rated for 2200 lbs of tongue weight. Its an aftermarket hitch because fords was only rated for 1000 lbs tw.

dsrace wrote:

I wouldn't trust the manufacturer numbers for a start. Go to the CAT scale fully loaded as if you are going on a trip.

2klb with a center of gravity 6-10ft behind the axles could easily remove 500-800lb off the hitch. If we assume the 1200lb is correct, that leaves the hitch weight at somewhere around 400-700lb on a trailer that is likely pushing 10k lb fully loaded. That would be 4-7% hitch weight...no wonder it gets squirly.

i agree and i do need to go weigh it once the weather gets better. we have more snow and ice forecasted for today. my guestimate was 10k to 10,500 lbs loaded.

i'm betting the tongue weight was closer to 600 lbs as that would explain why moving the two spare tires off the tail to the nose and adding apprx 100 lbs of tools made such a major difference. still wasn't enough but 85% better using my drw. i do not travel with any liquids in my tanks. considered adding 25 gals to the black tank as that is the farthest forward one.

.........

i believe that one can be tongue heavy on a bumper hitch and experience sway from that. i think the bpconversion would add leverage but really wondering if that 6' extension forward of the axles will add any tongue weight. i know it's not the same as moving the wheels back but i wonder if it amplifies tongue weight to some small extent?? if it did then permanently moving the spare tire carrier forward would be no issue.

So based on your description, you are grossly under weight on the hitch.

More weight on the hitch is almost always good so long as you don't overload the truck weight limits.

I'm not sure what this contraption will do. How much does it weigh and where is it's center of gravity? Moving the hitch further forward will reduce hitch weight but the weight of the contraption might counter that. You are still likely going to be light on the hitch.

Definitely get it weighed before putting a Band-Aid on that may or may not do anything.

Grit dog wrote:
My first blush is that you were tongue light when loaded and you confirmed it. And the pic sure looks like the axles could should move back a little. Especially when describing the payload.
Looks like they didn’t design the axle placement right if you gave them the right loading info.
Not sure the gn conversion will help if you don’t have enough tongue weight in the first place.
Upside is looks like moving axles would be real easy on that rig.
Just spitballing but you may be able to just weld new spring mounts on and extend the brake wires. Bing bang easy. Don’t even bother cutting the old ones off unless they interfere.
But if backing the rail in and pulling a little more weight up front works that seems even easier.

They were informed of the length, width, height as well as the weight of the sand rail. also that 60% of that 2k lbs is on the back half. I specifically requested 20% tw. According to there #'s, I received 16% tw ...... 20% tw def would've been better, but it is what it is now. i know they cannot hit that target dead on and prob didn't try too hard, as they prob knew they couldn't. I really wonder if a 32' oal would've offered a little better balance.

I am not opposed to moving axles and its wide open underneath. I didn't want the skirting below the wall. I know it looks better but one blow out and it could be junk. I also plan on some small tool boxs mounted in those areas.....down the road.

I don't want to winch it in backwards if possible..... but I keep coming back to that fact. I guess I will have to try it and see but I will be weighing everything on the cat scale first. I will also have to figure out how to drop the rear fresh water tank to add 2 more tie downs. The current tie down configuration was layed out in the floor specifically for the rail being pulled In.

I was just curious if anyone had tried one and what changes it made. I know dead weight will add to but not as much as one would hope. Curious how much etc etc.

My first blush is that you were tongue light when loaded and you confirmed it. And the pic sure looks like the axles could should move back a little. Especially when describing the payload.
Looks like they didn’t design the axle placement right if you gave them the right loading info.
Not sure the gn conversion will help if you don’t have enough tongue weight in the first place.
Upside is looks like moving axles would be real easy on that rig.
Just spitballing but you may be able to just weld new spring mounts on and extend the brake wires. Bing bang easy. Don’t even bother cutting the old ones off unless they interfere.
But if backing the rail in and pulling a little more weight up front works that seems even easier.

I wouldn't trust the manufacturer numbers for a start. Go to the CAT scale fully loaded as if you are going on a trip.

2klb with a center of gravity 6-10ft behind the axles could easily remove 500-800lb off the hitch. If we assume the 1200lb is correct, that leaves the hitch weight at somewhere around 400-700lb on a trailer that is likely pushing 10k lb fully loaded. That would be 4-7% hitch weight...no wonder it gets squirly.

i agree and i do need to go weigh it once the weather gets better. we have more snow and ice forecasted for today. my guestimate was 10k to 10,500 lbs loaded.

i'm betting the tongue weight was closer to 600 lbs as that would explain why moving the two spare tires off the tail to the nose and adding apprx 100 lbs of tools made such a major difference. still wasn't enough but 85% better using my drw. i do not travel with any liquids in my tanks. considered adding 25 gals to the black tank as that is the farthest forward one.

for that trip home, i moved all the additional gear i could to the front end to help even more including the soda and bottled water. i thought that would help for the trip home. we got 100 miles and i had to stop as it didn't help, actually felt like it was worse and that made no sense what so every! the front of the camper was now 1.5" higher then it was on the way down. you could see it and i measured it at the truck stop. adjusted the wdh, did not drop the tongue any. went another 200 miles with 95% of that drive in a tail wind. handled fine with a tail wind. i could not figure out how adding all the weight to the front was making the tongue sit higher then it did on the trip down.

finally got home, exhausted, 7hr drive turned into an 8 and it was starting to rain as we pulled up. scrambling to get as much unloaded as we could when my wife tells me the roof i leaking in the bedroom and soaking the bed. the only thing one can do in that instance is just laugh. i pulled it into the building and started cleaning up the leak and setting fans up. we were hooked up to city water for that 3 day trip. i have 100 gals fresh water, 50 gal gray, 50 gal black. 2- 50 gal fresh tanks, one mounted between the axles and the majority of the 2nd one sits in front of the first axle. for some unknown reason, as i walked past the tank monitor panel, i checked the tank levels. i had emptied the black and gray before we left the park but still needed to flush them. when i pushed the fresh water button it read full. i thought great, sensors are out along with the roof leak! i walked out and opened the tank drain valve ( 1.5" od pvc pipe) and like an idiot, i was standing right in front of it expecting it to be empty. i'm sure you can guess what happened next! discharges out the side. the check valve in the water pump had been filling up the fresh water tank over the last 3 days. that 100 gals of water dropped the back end 1.5".



i am just trying to get my ducks in a row before the next dune trip. i know that the bpconversion might be a expensive bandaid but it will def control sway far better. i know that w/o moving the axles back that the weight of rail is still hanging that far back. i believe that one can be tongue heavy on a bumper hitch and experience sway from that. i think the bpconversion would add leverage but really wondering if that 6' extension forward of the axles will add any tongue weight. i know it's not the same as moving the wheels back but i wonder if it amplifies tongue weight to some small extent?? if it did then permanently moving the spare tire carrier forward would be no issue.

dsrace wrote:
dune sport said they weighed it, stated it weighed 7195 lbs / 1195 lbs tongue, empty. i call that 7200/1200 lbs. i want to believe them but i do need to know for sure and i need to know loaded as well. there is a cat scale/truck stop, 25 miles from me as well. thinking about a weigh safe hitch to see the different tongue weights loaded differently once i weigh it loaded at the cat scale.

.........

its 2k lbs and 60% of that is in the rear w/o occupants. backing it in is doable with the winch, but not a fun time. have to swap rear tires to scab wheels ( leaving 2.5" on each side when loaded) and winch it in. pulled in, my front wheels are parked directly on top of the first axle.

I wouldn't trust the manufacturer numbers for a start. Go to the CAT scale fully loaded as if you are going on a trip.

2klb with a center of gravity 6-10ft behind the axles could easily remove 500-800lb off the hitch. If we assume the 1200lb is correct, that leaves the hitch weight at somewhere around 400-700lb on a trailer that is likely pushing 10k lb fully loaded. That would be 4-7% hitch weight...no wonder it gets squirly.