Finally got weights from CAT scale

redhooker wrote:
As someone who has been involved in the "legal" aspect of numerous traffic injury cases, I can say with certainty:

For the most part, kill someone on the road, and the "payout" to the family is for the most part STANDARDIZED. Sounds cold, but it won't be the first time and there is so much legal precedent that not much wiggle room exists. All handled by insurance. Someone mentioned earlier, GVWRs are not followed in almost ALL cars with full passenger loads. My wife's Equinox weighs 4300 lbs on the scale empty. With 5 passengers and stuff in the trunk we are OVER GVWR of 4950 lbs. Millons of americans recklessly owning unsafe cars-until the get on an RV forum they will have no clue that they have a "legal responsibility" to load their family of 5 or 6 into a 3/4 ton SUV (roflol). Won't get any traction in a courtroom with that weak argument. Sure, anyone could try to follow up with a civil suit after the insurance co gets sued, but you would need a defendant with TON of liquid assets to get an attorney to take on that case.

IMO the best way to get sued? Hit someone while you are driving a privately owned $100,000 tow vehicle.

With that wisdom, maybe the mods will put a bow on this one!

As someone who has been involved in the "legal" aspect of numerous traffic injury cases, I can say with certainty:

For the most part, kill someone on the road, and the "payout" to the family is for the most part STANDARDIZED. Sounds cold, but it won't be the first time and there is so much legal precedent that not much wiggle room exists. All handled by insurance. Someone mentioned earlier, GVWRs are not followed in almost ALL cars with full passenger loads. My wife's Equinox weighs 4300 lbs on the scale empty. With 5 passengers and stuff in the trunk we are OVER GVWR of 4950 lbs. Millons of americans recklessly owning unsafe cars-until the get on an RV forum they will have no clue that they have a "legal responsibility" to load their family of 5 or 6 into a 3/4 ton SUV (roflol). Won't get any traction in a courtroom with that weak argument. Sure, anyone could try to follow up with a civil suit after the insurance co gets sued, but you would need a defendant with TON of liquid assets to get an attorney to take on that case.

IMO the best way to get sued? Hit someone while you are driving a privately owned $100,000 tow vehicle.

tsetsaf wrote:
OP... a little over but good for me. Gotta love the weight police "we are only looking out for you!" I run similar to your numbers... over gvwr under on everything else... lost my trailer brakes a couple months ago. Didn't realize it till I arrived at park it was that un-noticeable. I suggest everyone try it once... stop from speed without trailer brakes.

My experience was different, though not really related to the weight topic....I was going down I26 on what they call the "Saluda grade"..7% for several miles....towing my 16,300# 5er with my 2012 Ram 3500 dually...speed limit 70...though, I was running 60 just to be safe going DOWN the mountain....started picking up some speed, tapped my truck brakes and message came on stating "trailer not connected"..wasn't a big deal AND my truck slowed me to a stop, BUT, it WAS noticeable, (cable had "jiggled" loose...have since fixed that issue)..guess it depends on the downhill grade and speed....Trailer brakes help brake trailer anyway and usually do...BUT trucks brakes were able to control entire load of a little over 25000# gross.

I agree, everyone ought to do it once , ( in a safe way of course), just to see the difference with just the truck slowing/stopping what you're towing....In my experience, it WAS noticeable, but not dangerous...wouldn't want to drive a long distance like that, especially if I HAD to make an emergency stop where the trailer would take care of itself.

Guess I am getting in on the tail end of this weight police thread.
I've always been a member of the 20% club. What ever the rating is for anything, I add 20% to it. Trucks, hitches, chain saws, snow blowers, tires, mowers, anything.
If a hitch is rated at 15k, does anyone really think it will break at 15,001 pounds. Manufactures add at least 20% to their rating to cover their behind.
I also have a 2500 that pull a 12,500# rated 5er empty with 2,000# for supplies by the manufacture making the rating for 14500#. No matter what I do it will never be over the rating plus 20%. And I have not got around to get to the cat scale yet and have been pulling it for 7 years, the last 3 to Florida and back as a snowbird............

OP... a little over but good for me. Gotta love the weight police "we are only looking out for you!" I run similar to your numbers... over gvwr under on everything else... lost my trailer brakes a couple months ago. Didn't realize it till I arrived at park it was that un-noticeable. I suggest everyone try it once... stop from speed without trailer brakes.

ramgunner wrote:
Since you ask about the level of risk...

On your best day, you are still stressing components beyond their ratings. But your best day won't count when looking at risk.

IF you are ever involved in an accident while towing, they (LE, insurance companies, and lawyers) will look at everything - any every little thing. If you were towing over any of your limits, they will latch onto that.

Do you want to be sitting in court when the lawyer representing the widow of the deceased driver of the vehicle you hit points that fact out to the ladies and gentlemen of the jury? He will have an expert witness to explain what that means to them - and it won't be "Oh, it's just a law like the speed limit", although he would point out in that case exceeding the speed limit could also bring up negligence. He will also have a copy of the owners manual that shows the GVWR and all of the warnings not to exceed it. He might even show them a copy of this thread. He will have a copy of your weights from the scales as proof, and CAT will be able to provide a witness as to their accuracy. Do you think Ford will provide a witness that will say "The numbers don't mean anything" or will they say "We clearly recommend that none of the weight ratings be exceeded"?

How much insurance do you have? How many assets do you have? That's your level of risk on the civil side.

If a prosecutor becomes involved on the criminal side, there is a good chance he might want to put you before a jury too. He might himself tow over his limits, but don't expect that to sway his decision. He has a job, and that's to put people like you in front of a jury. He will have that same expert witness, plus state DOT folks that will be happy to explain it to the jury.

That jury won't just cost you money. You could end up serving time, and with a criminal record. That's your potential risk on the criminal side.

Will you ever have a "worst day"? You can't control what other drivers do. You can only make sure that you are safe on your end.

Everyone is stuck on the legal issue...

CITE ME ONE INSTANCE WHERE SOMEONE HAS BEEN SUED FOR BEING OVERWEIGHT!!

Put up or shut up.

While you are at it quote the law regarding enforcement of GVWR in a non commercial situation.

ACZL wrote:
A 3/4 ton overweight??? Never heard of such a thing! Want to see overweight, how many 1/2 tons are going down the road with their headlights shinning into the trees? 1/2 tons towing very large 5ers?! Yes OP is overweight some. Ratings by MFR's are to cover their butts. In this case, if Ford says the max weight of a trailer is 12,000--I don't know exactly, but let's use it for argument sake), you can rest assured Ford tested it with a 24,000 trailer knowing full well folks will hook a heavier trailer onto it above 12,000.

Does it make it legal, no. Overweight is overweight. BUT as long as the owner is fully aware of things and keeps a "safety" cushion around him, everything should be alright. Note, should. In the unlikely event he's involved in a crash (depending on severity), he could be in for a good lawsuit. There are plenty of overweight 1/2, 3/4 and 1 ton trucks running up/down the hiways.

I know of 2 folks that have 3/4 D-maxs and are waaaaaay over the limit for them. Yet, not a scratch on them. Plenty of aftermarket items to beef up a susp, engine or what have you, but seeing the OP is under 2,000 overweight, I wouldn't make a big fuss about it like some have on this thread. Biggest thing is knowing what you have and how best to handle it.

Really want to blow this thread up? How does it make folks feel about a 3500/450 trucks maxing out at 33,000-35,000 and not used to towing that much weight WITHOUT a CDL??? Don't know about you all, but that scares the bejesus out of me while someone who drives for a living has to have a CDL for these weights, BUT IS use to them. Yet noone is complaining about the ave "Joe" buying a 45' diesel pusher w/ tag axle towing a 20'-30' enclosed trailer behind them who just yesterday was driving his/her Impala around town.

Very good observations...especially with the 45' diesel pusher and towing a trailer behind it big enough to park a 1/2 ton pick-up in it:)....

I'm "sorta' like Rick, I work with GVWR numbers, KNOWING I'm well under that right now and even more under my trucks RAWR...So I can still purchase a much heavier 5er and would go over my trucks GVWR, (done it before), BUT still be WELL under my trucks RAWR...Ram rates it at 9750#,( E rated 17" OEM tires aired to 65psi).. AAM rates this rear axle at 11,800# (300mm), so one could get a higher weight rated tire that could handle more weight than OEM tires, and STILL be under the AAM ratings of 11,800# by quite a lot...if one wants to push it that far....I just don't think it's wise to go over the Axle MANUFACTURERS weight ratings on THEIR axles...THEN, I think you're asking for trouble....

As far as 3500 maxing out at 33,000-35,000# , (if talking 3500 Dually), my truck with 4:10 has a GCWR of 37,600#....that being the case, I feel I could load my truck to 33,000-35,000# and still be fine...( I also figure the GCWR numbers are conservative ALSO, BUT, 33,000 to 35000# GROSS, DOESN'T exceed my trucks GCWR numbers:))...AND, I won't need a CDL license...but I've seen 18 wheel CDL licensed drivers that shouldn't be driving those big rigs either.

A 3/4 ton overweight??? Never heard of such a thing! Want to see overweight, how many 1/2 tons are going down the road with their headlights shinning into the trees? 1/2 tons towing very large 5ers?! Yes OP is overweight some. Ratings by MFR's are to cover their butts. In this case, if Ford says the max weight of a trailer is 12,000--I don't know exactly, but let's use it for argument sake), you can rest assured Ford tested it with a 24,000 trailer knowing full well folks will hook a heavier trailer onto it above 12,000.

Does it make it legal, no. Overweight is overweight. BUT as long as the owner is fully aware of things and keeps a "safety" cushion around him, everything should be alright. Note, should. In the unlikely event he's involved in a crash (depending on severity), he could be in for a good lawsuit. There are plenty of overweight 1/2, 3/4 and 1 ton trucks running up/down the hiways.

I know of 2 folks that have 3/4 D-maxs and are waaaaaay over the limit for them. Yet, not a scratch on them. Plenty of aftermarket items to beef up a susp, engine or what have you, but seeing the OP is under 2,000 overweight, I wouldn't make a big fuss about it like some have on this thread. Biggest thing is knowing what you have and how best to handle it.

Really want to blow this thread up? How does it make folks feel about a 3500/450 trucks maxing out at 33,000-35,000 and not used to towing that much weight WITHOUT a CDL??? Don't know about you all, but that scares the bejesus out of me while someone who drives for a living has to have a CDL for these weights, BUT IS use to them. Yet noone is complaining about the ave "Joe" buying a 45' diesel pusher w/ tag axle towing a 20'-30' enclosed trailer behind them who just yesterday was driving his/her Impala around town.

lj2654 wrote:
So the consensus is: after all the replies the OP is overweight by some, would be safer with a bigger truck, or a smaller fifth wheel. does he want to change trucks or fifth wheel, doesn't seem like it! Can he do some mods to the truck to help it out and be safer, yes, to some degree! So now it's back in his court to decide what's best for him and his family and their safety while going down the road. End of story!

He could drop 10-20K for a trade up SRW F350, which buys him the spacer blocks, F350 badges, a different placard and a lighter wallet!

Common sense no longer exist in this country!

Somehow 10's of thousands for snowbirders arrive each winter in the South with 250/2500 trucks towing some really large and heavy trailers.

The only horror story I have every read was by Caddywhompus claiming his father was sued. He never provided a case number to verify it.

And of course one could do something stupid in a Dually towing a 29' trailer and get sued!
Chris

So the consensus is: after all the replies the OP is overweight by some, would be safer with a bigger truck, or a smaller fifth wheel. does he want to change trucks or fifth wheel, doesn't seem like it! Can he do some mods to the truck to help it out and be safer, yes, to some degree! So now it's back in his court to decide what's best for him and his family and their safety while going down the road. End of story!