Complaint about a dealer

Dennis, you are correct in your points and it is great tht you are seeing things from the dealer's side as well.

Thing is, there should have been someone responsible for the issues and it should have been clear to the service writer that these were warranty repairs so that the customer would not get the bill OR would get the bill that stated NO CHARGES, just to outline the fact that all the items on the list were addressed.

IMO the comment at the end about charging to chase down non-issues was uncalled for and only instilled a bit of animosity in to the mix.

Executive wrote:
I can understand some of the frustration but not all..

stugpanzer wrote:
In retrospect in reading my own post and having time to do some reflection during my writing sessions, I think my frustration is multi-parted in that:

1) we traded a perfectly working coach.
But, an OLDER coach. There's a REASON why YOU traded.
Generally that reason is to get something nicer or better suited for the owner's needs than what they already have. Not necessarily just because the previous unit is older.

2) we had many issues that we did not expect with this new (to us) coach.
It's a REPO..NOT a NEW coach. Expect issues with any coach. Your expectations were too high.
I disagree. The dealer sold a used working coach regardless if it was a repo or not it still needed to be working properly and needed to be clean.

Sure, there should be expected that things will be worn or bulbs might be burned out but the systems should all work and whoever cleaned it should have opened and closed the blinds and cleaned them as well.

3) The way we were treated for the work that was done, that I feel should have been taken care of before we even received the coach was unprofessional and not called for.
Cleanliness varies. What's clean to others may not be clean to you.
True, but at least they could have cleaned the blinds. That should have been part of basic cleaning.

4) It seems at every turn, something is going wrong with this coach giving us the feeling of owning a lemon. I know they require maintenance but we didn't experience this many issues with our Damon.
Bad Kharma..the more you resent the Fleetwood, the more 'issues' will bother you. Time to accept the new (to you) coach.
Yes. Must accept the rig but also must accept it as properly working which at this point it is not. That fact, coupled with all the other little things and the dealer's attitude is what has the OP thinking about now owning a lemon.

While that is not necessarily true, the dealer's attitude (IMO) has led to those feelings.

5) My anger towards my RV Dealer is directly related to two things
a) their promise to deliver a 'like new' coach was not fulfilled
'Like new' to you differs from what 'like new' is to the dealer. and
b) after telling me to log the issues and that they would take care of them (which they did) but then to turn around and bill me for it, then rescind the bill only after complaining about getting the bill in the first place and then give me a lecture via email on what is and is not covered in a warranty and what my expectations of the warranty is.
Sounds like "assuming" took place on both sides.

Assuming? Yes, the buyer assumed the dealer would correct all the issues as found and make it right. The buyer assumed there would be no charge as many of those issues were found within the first few hours and maybe should have been found during the inspection process.

We all know how that goes. Both parties are anxious to get the rig off the lot. The buyer is anxious to go play with their new toy and the dealer is anxious to get the ink dry on the contract so they can turn the inventory over and get that thing out of there!

As for the dealer assuming something... do you actually believe the dealer assumed the brand new buyer would be pleased to pay for all the little and big things that they found right away after the dealer told them to write it all up and bring it back?

You bought the coach used, (don't know if you got a 'killer' deal) and expected a 'like new' coach. Like new is not 'perfect'.
No, it should not have been perfect but it should have been clean and all the systems should have been properly working. There should have been signs of normal wear and tear but the dealer should have gone through it and fixed everything that was broken. Since the dealer offered the warranty then the dealer should have addressed the issues in the first list under the warranty AND as part of the initial inspection process. The bill should never have been charged to the buyer and the buyer should not have had to wage a complaint.

You turned in a list to the dealer asking them to fix those items. Probably irritated the tech by asking them to fix a burned out lightbulb, but they fixed your list and billed you for the repairs.
If the tech is irritated by replacing a burned out light bulb on a unit for a REPEAT customer then maybe the tech needs a new job somewhere else.

Remember, different individuals doing different things within the company. (Lack of communication between billing clerk, service mgr and owner) Sounds like owner cleared that up but wasn't going to continue giving you a blank check for future repairs.
Could have gone about it in a more tactful manner, rather than issuing a bill and then chastising the buyer after they complained about the bill.

The warranty you received specifies what needs to be done in the event of a failure. You didn't follow protocol. They, most likely have some of the parts you need in their facility. Maybe from a previous fix.
So are they using left over parts that they toss in a bin somewhere in the shop and dig from when they need it.

Brake systems are important and should be repaired properly.

I agree that the buyer should have taken it back to the dealer but int he same respect, given this dealer's history at this point I am not sure I would be able to trust they would perform the repair properly

IMHO, you've got to give them the opportunity to fix your issue. The only other solution is to write them off and move on. You'll get nothing from any government agency. The dealer will show they acted in good faith by completing your previous repairs and eating the cost of those repairs. If you want the dealer to fix your issue under their warranty, you'll have to take it back to them. Otherwise it's on your nickel......Dennis

True. The dealer must be given an opportunity to fix things otherwise the dealer will prevail in a complaint.

That is why it is imperative that the buyer accurately document everything and find out from the brake manufacturer the PROPER repair procedure for the brake system and then ensure it is done properly.

deltamaster wrote:

stugpanzer wrote:
UPDATE ON THE BRAKE ISSUE.

When my RV dealer states it can be repaired, they mean that since the brake pump runs then it probably does not need replacing. I called my service center and asked them if the pump was included in this replacement to which they said yes. I then asked them if they could do the repair, minus the pump and they said that the repair kit includes the pump and that is the only way they get the parts. As someone said, I might have to take the coach to the RV dealer to get it fixed, minus the pump.

If the repair shop is being honest and the brake system manufacturer only sells the repair kit WITH the pump then there might be a good reason for that. MAYBE the manufacturer of the brake system will not warranty the new brake system installation without a pump replacement due to some unforseeable internal issue or damage. Maybe there could be metal shavings or other debris in the hydraulics that could damage the pump. Who knows.

Has the brake system manufacturer responded to the OP as yet?

Nothing yet.

@Deltamaster, you hit the nail on the head. It is probably more a feeling of distrust that I have for the dealer than anger. I am concerned about approaching them for fear of my requesting the 'wrong' thing or being treated like I'm stupid. I learned long ago that ones perception is their own reality. I accept that people perceive me in a certain way in my life, amongst friends and family and even places like these forums. Some of those perceptions may not make me happy and might even be dead wrong but they are still someones reality. That is where I am at with this dealer. My perception might be wrong but it is my reality.

stugpanzer wrote:
In retrospect in reading my own post and having time to do some reflection during my writing sessions, I think my frustration is multi-parted in that:

1) we traded a perfectly working coach.
2) we had many issues that we did not expect with this new (to us) coach.
3) The way we were treated for the work that was done, that I feel should have been taken care of before we even received the coach was unprofessional and not called for.
4) It seems at every turn, something is going wrong with this coach giving us the feeling of owning a lemon. I know they require maintenance but we didn't experience this many issues with our Damon.
5) My anger towards my RV Dealer is directly related to two things
a) their promise to deliver a 'like new' coach was not fulfilled and
b) after telling me to log the issues and that they would take care of them (which they did) but then to turn around and bill me for it, then rescind the bill only after complaining about getting the bill in the first place and then give me a lecture via email on what is and is not covered in a warranty and what my expectations of the warranty is.

OK... confirmation of my earlier post and suspicions.

I would also have some trust issues with the selling dealer as well. That is why it is best to get information from the brake system manufacturer as to why they include the pump in the kit and what their take is on the proper repair.

If the mechanic can only get the kit with the pump then how will the selling dealer's mechanic make the proper repairs without purchasing the kit?

Do they manufacture the parts themselves?

Do they source and purchase the individual parts from some other place and cobble the thing back together?

You buy an 8 year old used coach, NOT just any Motorhome, but a REPO, which YOU KNEW. You really think people that turned in a REPO unit took good care of it?????????????????????? Then this is YOUR list that you wanted taken care of which is reasonable.

1. Front (Zone 1) AC Interior water leak.
2. Rear (Zone 2) AC Squealing when starting.
3. Awning Wind Sensor issue (sensor not detected).
4. Water Heater – Still does not always wanting to start.
5. Missing ‘ring’ on Passenger map light.

I assume the dealer took care of THESE issues at no charge to you. If so, you have NO reason to be upset. ALL the other items are not part of YOUR original deal. They came up after the sale and IF any of the major chassis items came up on your drive home at the FIRST time you left the lot, then you should have returned immediately. From your post, those items did not. You purchased a USED REPO unit and expect treatment like you purchased NEW with a full factory warranty. Curious, IF the dealer called you up and stated he wanted you to pay for any problems on your trade in unit that they were getting ready for the new owner, you would gladly write a check to cover those items????? Its too bad you have all these problems, but putting blame on the dealer is not right. ONLY if he had knowledge of those major problems prior to the sale would he be liable. Doug

stugpanzer wrote:
UPDATE ON THE BRAKE ISSUE.

When my RV dealer states it can be repaired, they mean that since the brake pump runs then it probably does not need replacing. I called my service center and asked them if the pump was included in this replacement to which they said yes. I then asked them if they could do the repair, minus the pump and they said that the repair kit includes the pump and that is the only way they get the parts. As someone said, I might have to take the coach to the RV dealer to get it fixed, minus the pump.

If the repair shop is being honest and the brake system manufacturer only sells the repair kit WITH the pump then there might be a good reason for that. MAYBE the manufacturer of the brake system will not warranty the new brake system installation without a pump replacement due to some unforseeable internal issue or damage. Maybe there could be metal shavings or other debris in the hydraulics that could damage the pump. Who knows.

Has the brake system manufacturer responded to the OP as yet?

stugpanzer wrote:

BobR wrote:
I would take the motorhome to the selling dealer and have them fix the auto brake issue under their self administered warranty plan. Remember, the dealer's out of pocket expense is much less if they do the work themselves. I know it is frustrating, but from an outsiders view it looks as if the dealer is trying to work with you.

Agreed, but with an attitude. Of course as with anything written, it is difficult to get the tone out there properly. This dealer has done a lot for us, but I also feel like they are irritated with me for what I felt were items they should have had fixed before I ever picked the coach up. My bad for not finding them during the inspection, but I don't think I need to feel guilty for having them stand by their own words to 'make it like new'.

Seems that the attitude expressed after you came back from your trip with the grocery list of things that needed fixed might also be a factor in this as well.

Sending a bill for 27 hundred in issues that should have been corrected prior to selling the rig to the customer is in BAD form and then the attitude afterward about it when they put in the little jab about charging to chase down ghosts really rubbed me a bit wrong.

C0uple that with all the little things and the get bigger to the point of distrust. I am not sure I would trust that they would effect a permanent repair to the brake system. I would be concerned it would only last as long as the warranty and then I would be stuck with another 3K bill to have it done properly.

Thanks Dennis! As always I appreciate your input!

I can understand some of the frustration but not all..

stugpanzer wrote:
In retrospect in reading my own post and having time to do some reflection during my writing sessions, I think my frustration is multi-parted in that:

1) we traded a perfectly working coach.
But, an OLDER coach. There's a REASON why YOU traded.
2) we had many issues that we did not expect with this new (to us) coach.
It's a REPO..NOT a NEW coach. Expect issues with any coach. Your expectations were too high.
3) The way we were treated for the work that was done, that I feel should have been taken care of before we even received the coach was unprofessional and not called for.
Cleanliness varies. What's clean to others may not be clean to you.
4) It seems at every turn, something is going wrong with this coach giving us the feeling of owning a lemon. I know they require maintenance but we didn't experience this many issues with our Damon.
Bad Kharma..the more you resent the Fleetwood, the more 'issues' will bother you. Time to accept the new (to you) coach.
5) My anger towards my RV Dealer is directly related to two things
a) their promise to deliver a 'like new' coach was not fulfilled
'Like new' to you differs from what 'like new' is to the dealer. and
b) after telling me to log the issues and that they would take care of them (which they did) but then to turn around and bill me for it, then rescind the bill only after complaining about getting the bill in the first place and then give me a lecture via email on what is and is not covered in a warranty and what my expectations of the warranty is.
Sounds like "assuming" took place on both sides.

I do feel your pain. However, I can also see the dealer's side of things. I'm trying to see both sides here. Maybe if you look at this from the dealer's perspective it will help contain some of your irritation. You bought the coach used, (don't know if you got a 'killer' deal) and expected a 'like new' coach. Like new is not 'perfect'. You turned in a list to the dealer asking them to fix those items. Probably irritated the tech by asking them to fix a burned out lightbulb, but they fixed your list and billed you for the repairs. Remember, different individuals doing different things within the company. (Lack of communication between billing clerk, service mgr and owner) Sounds like owner cleared that up but wasn't going to continue giving you a blank check for future repairs. The warranty you received specifies what needs to be done in the event of a failure. You didn't follow protocol. They, most likely have some of the parts you need in their facility. Maybe from a previous fix. IMHO, you've got to give them the opportunity to fix your issue. The only other solution is to write them off and move on. You'll get nothing from any government agency. The dealer will show they acted in good faith by completing your previous repairs and eating the cost of those repairs. If you want the dealer to fix your issue under their warranty, you'll have to take it back to them. Otherwise it's on your nickel......Dennis

In retrospect in reading my own post and having time to do some reflection during my writing sessions, I think my frustration is multi-parted in that:

1) we traded a perfectly working coach.
2) we had many issues that we did not expect with this new (to us) coach.
3) The way we were treated for the work that was done, that I feel should have been taken care of before we even received the coach was unprofessional and not called for.
4) It seems at every turn, something is going wrong with this coach giving us the feeling of owning a lemon. I know they require maintenance but we didn't experience this many issues with our Damon.
5) My anger towards my RV Dealer is directly related to two things
a) their promise to deliver a 'like new' coach was not fulfilled and
b) after telling me to log the issues and that they would take care of them (which they did) but then to turn around and bill me for it, then rescind the bill only after complaining about getting the bill in the first place and then give me a lecture via email on what is and is not covered in a warranty and what my expectations of the warranty is.