Another GVWR Travel trailer question

Your welcome. Glad I could help.

On the 3 valve V10 I have, yes it is a good power plant. Nice semi flat torque curve. She has a drink'in problem but creating the power comes with a cost. I have the 5 speed Torqueshift tranny and it holds in high gear well.

I have heard good things about the 6.2 V8 as well. The ratings they are putting on the truck with the 6.2 and 4.30 rear axle are more then mine. I'm with the 6.8 V10 with a 4.10 rear axle rated at 21,000 GCWR. The 6.2 V8 with the 4.30 in the F250 is 22,000 GCWR and in the F350 SRW 6.2 V8 with the 4.30 is 23,500 GCWR

Don't really know why SRW and 1 ton truck changes the pull ratings but it does. The V8 I'm sure is higher Rev'ed to get it, but it can.

I have 107,000 miles on mine now and as long as gas does not go nuts in the $4/gal or higher I see no need to upgrade right now. It pulls all I need. Trying to get another 60 to 90K more miles out of it before the new one comes.

Good luck on the hitch tweek. Let us know how it goes.

John

John thanks again. Will be using the tape measure this weekend

I see no reason not to tweak for best performance plus you learn as you do it

On a side note i see you have the v10

Sad No longer offered in the trucks but are in the cutaway chassis.

From work experience with v10 in cargo e350 vans we got 300k plus miles out of them with routine maintenace hauling heavy loads. Workhorse engines. The 5.4 v8 tritons were solid also. Never got less than 200k miles trouble free out of them either but v10 is in another class by itself.


Ive read good things on my 6.2 v8 so fingers crossed. 5k towing miles so far im happy

Hi again, on the truck WD settings

sgfrye wrote:


Basically
Truck is 2017 f250 2wd crew 4x2 gasser 3.73 rear

I felt by the numbers front of truck was a bit light but wasn't really worried based on the way the TT towed which is effortless and when parked on level ground with WDH engaged the TT is dead on level as is truck

I thought a bit more tension on bars might help front truck weight so may try that on next trip

As you are learning your way through this, you have a very good truck for your camper. Congrats!

However there this more to setting the WD hitch then the truck being level. A level truck is not necessarily a good criteria to use as to what is considered proper WD on the truck. If it comes out that way, great. But the stance of the truck is secondary, the weight change on the front axle and what is left on the rear axle is the need.

In your case you have plenty of rear axle capacity so that is not a problem. The front axle however can have issues with excessive sliding in slippery conditions if too much weight is removed with a camper pushing you. They call this understeer.

And too heavy a front axle when towing a camper can have a negative effect too. The front end can bite in so to speak and not slip sending you into a jackknife real fast, again when a camper is pushing you in a turn. They call this oversteer.

Under and Over Steer

The goal with a WD hitch and a camper is to be between those 2 extremes, make sure you are not overloading your rear axle, the truck receiver, and not have the front end too light or too heavy.

Notice I did not mention the stance of the truck. My F350 has a california rake to it. The back end is sky high unhitched, your F250 having lighter rear springs has less rear high but still your truck, and mine are made that the rear axle can carry the entire payload of the truck. The difference with the camper is, the rear overhang is about 65" from the center of the rear axle to the tow ball if you have the short bed. A long bed truck that rear overhang can be even longer. The loaded camper on the tow ball affects the truck axles different than just raw bed weight.

To declare proper WD on the truck we need to talk front axle weights and or front and rear axle fender heights. We will start with the fender heights. Load the truck with camping gear the way you will go camping. This sets the truck at a natural stance with no camper. Record the front and rear fender heights measuring up through the center of the tire on a hard level surface. Ground up through the center of the tire, then to the inside fender. This is set 1.

Then hitch up the camper and just let the raw loaded camper hang on the tow ball. No WD bars engaged yet. Record that number for front and rear fender heights. This is set 2

Then engage the WD bars. Now record that number for front and rear fender heights. This is set 3.

Compare the numbers. The front axle height should be at the 1/2 way point between set 1 and set 2 or up to being equal to set 1 with the WD bars are engaged but beyond and lower then set 1. This is call front axle load restoration, FALR. They want the front axle between 50% to max of 100% load restored with the WD hitch settings. They give you some room to move in between.

On my F350 I am more in the 75 to 80% restored and it is a gasser too and I find this tows well like this. The front it not too bouncy/bobbing from being too light, the steering feels solid and I'm inside all by axle and receiver ratings. At 100% restored on mine, that is not good either are the back of the truck is not as solid left to right. Your F250 and your bed loads may be a little different. There is trial and error to the settings to hit the sweet spot.

For your 2017 F250 look on page 283 under Weight-distributing Hitches and it describes the basics I talked to above.

When the WD on the truck is set, then you may have to raise or lower the hitch head on the hitch shank to level out the camper. Check the fender heights again after you level out the camper if you have to move a bolt hole. Sometimes a tweak in hitch head tilt may be needed to get back to your ideal WD fender heights.

The truck stance may be level, rear high or rear somewhat lower. All are OK as long as the axle weights are where they need to be. And axle weights follow close to fender heights in changing weights. The only way to 100% know your axle loads is weigh the truck on the scales and compare the weights. But you will need 3 weight sets to do it.

Hope this helps

John

mike-s wrote:
The GVWR is the weight of the TT (period). How much is on the hitch, or what kind of hitch is used makes no difference. GVWR is not the axle rating.

Manufacturer's sometimes spec a GVWR which is higher than the axle rating because they expect at least 10% to be on the hitch.

thank for you verifying what i was thinking to begin with. sometimes i try to overthink the issue

The GVWR is the weight of the TT (period). How much is on the hitch, or what kind of hitch is used makes no difference. GVWR is not the axle rating.

Manufacturer's sometimes spec a GVWR which is higher than the axle rating because they expect at least 10% to be on the hitch.

JBarca wrote:
OK good, now we have more to work with and be able to help more.

I'm assuming this statement is true. Please Confirm you weighed the camper all by itself on the scales. Or is this a calculated value from some other weight slips?

sgfrye wrote:
Loaded to camp with 2 empty grey ranks and approx 10 gallons in black tank our TT is 7000lbs weighed on cat scales unhooked from truck

Assuming you weighed it by itself like you stated, this means the GVW of the trailer loaded is 7,000#

Since your GVWR is 7,720# that means the trailer has 7,720 - 7,000 = 720# more cargo capacity left in the camper.

Now let's look at the setup.

sgfrye wrote:

Weighed truck on scales with me in drivers seat.

Steer axle 3800 lbs
Drive axle 2840 lbs

6640 lb total

Truck and TT together

Steer axle 3420
Drive axle 3920
Trailer 6300

Gross weight 13640

I got trailer weight 7000 by subtracting truck weight from gross weight. Maybe that was wrong? 6640lbs truck -13640 total weight on cat scales =7000

Tag on trailer has 7720 gvwr.
Axles are 2 x 3500lbs gawr

If you weighed the truck by itself, and got 6,640# GVW and you subtract the GCW (gross combined weight) of 13,640# then yes, 13,640 - 6,640 = 7,000# is the trailer GVW.

But you cannot determine a loaded TW from your scaled numbers as the WD was engaged. You would need a 3rd weight, trailer hitched to truck but no WD bar tensioned up. Need truck front and rear axle and TT axle weight with that setup. Since there are no WD bars, then you can subtract the truck hitched weight with no WD bars from the unhitched truck weight and the gain would be the TT loaded tongue weight.

Your WD on the truck looks very light on the front end. You are 380# light on the front end. I do not know what year your F250 is. The newer ones they want the front end to be between 50% to close to 100% restored front end weight. Again you need the 3rd weight set to sort that out. But I can tell by your trailer weights you are light on the front. Need some more tension on the WD bars.

To this statement,

sgfrye wrote:
I have no need to add 1420 lbs of cargo but would like to know where I stand if I wanted to tow with fresh water and more supplies

Your 1,420# cargo number is not right. You only have 720# of cargo capacity left on the camper. An issue is you do not know your loaded tongue weight. That is very important as adding fresh water may raise it (good) or lower it (can be bad depending)

If your fresh tank is directly over the axles, adding water to the tank is close to neutral to tongue weight, you gain GVW but it may not affect the loaded TW. It will however lower the percentage of loaded TW per GVW and that too may not be good depending on what the numbers are.

If the fresh tank is forward of the axles, then some weight will add to the axles and some to the tongue. How much depends on where the tank is located. Closer to the axles means less TW gain. Closer to the front of the camper means more TW gain.

Since it is a rear kitchen, yes adding weight forward of the axles is a ideally where you want to add it. You "might" be able to add some gear in the kitchen but again you need to know the current loaded TW so you can determine what percent the loaded TW is per the loaded GVW. On a TT, ideally this is 12% or higher for natural low anti sway on the trailer and to allow some room for cargo to change from trip to trip and not go down into the 10% or lower area. You have a good truck to hold the added TW and bed gear, you just need to optimize the setup.

Your trailer axles are rated for 7,000# GAWR. You have to watch that too to not go over that rating or overload one side of the camper. But since you can only add 720# total before reaching the 7,720 GVWR of the total trailer, odds are you do not load all 720# right on the axles.

If you have a front bedroom with a front large pass through cargo hole, adding gear under the bed and in the cargo hole will add a good amount of tongue weight. This can help allow small gear to go into the kitchen or axle area.

The fresh tank, need to find out where that is located and hopefully it is not behind the axles. Most TT mfg's know rear kitchens are tail heavy and put the fresh tank forward of the axles but not always.

This is truly a balancing act... The good news is, you are trying to sort it out and you are learning in the process. Good for you!! Not all take the time to do this.

Hope this helps

John

And that's why I joined this forum .... learn from experience
Great info from everyone thanks

Basically
Truck is 2017 f250 2wd crew 4x2 gasser 3.73 rear

Did not weigh TT on scales with WDH disengaged

I assumed total total weight of truck and TT minus truck weight would equal what TT actually weighed

I felt by the numbers front of truck was a bit light but wasn't really worried based on the way the TT towed which is effortless and when parked on level ground with WDH engaged the TT is dead on level as is truck

The only added weight I can see adding on longer trips is a few more groceries and maybe 10 gallons or so of water in fresh tank for bathroom breaks on the road. Just the wife and I plus 4 small dogs

We pack light anyway. My rule is whatever gets packed in camper before trip has to come out when we get back home. Cuts down on accumulation.

Fresh tank is over axles


I assumed 720 lbs cargo was what was available but wanted to verify

I thought a bit more tension on bars might help front truck weight so may try that on next trip

OK good, now we have more to work with and be able to help more.

I'm assuming this statement is true. Please Confirm you weighed the camper all by itself on the scales. Or is this a calculated value from some other weight slips?

sgfrye wrote:
Loaded to camp with 2 empty grey ranks and approx 10 gallons in black tank our TT is 7000lbs weighed on cat scales unhooked from truck

Assuming you weighed it by itself like you stated, this means the GVW of the trailer loaded is 7,000#

Since your GVWR is 7,720# that means the trailer has 7,720 - 7,000 = 720# more cargo capacity left in the camper.

Now let's look at the setup.

sgfrye wrote:

Weighed truck on scales with me in drivers seat.

Steer axle 3800 lbs
Drive axle 2840 lbs

6640 lb total

Truck and TT together

Steer axle 3420
Drive axle 3920
Trailer 6300

Gross weight 13640

I got trailer weight 7000 by subtracting truck weight from gross weight. Maybe that was wrong? 6640lbs truck -13640 total weight on cat scales =7000

Tag on trailer has 7720 gvwr.
Axles are 2 x 3500lbs gawr

If you weighed the truck by itself, and got 6,640# GVW and you subtract the GCW (gross combined weight) of 13,640# then yes, 13,640 - 6,640 = 7,000# is the trailer GVW.

But you cannot determine a loaded TW from your scaled numbers as the WD was engaged. You would need a 3rd weight, trailer hitched to truck but no WD bar tensioned up. Need truck front and rear axle and TT axle weight with that setup. Since there are no WD bars, then you can subtract the truck hitched weight with no WD bars from the unhitched truck weight and the gain would be the TT loaded tongue weight.

Your WD on the truck looks very light on the front end. You are 380# light on the front end. I do not know what year your F250 is. The newer ones they want the front end to be between 50% to close to 100% restored front end weight. Again you need the 3rd weight set to sort that out. But I can tell by your trailer weights you are light on the front. Need some more tension on the WD bars.

To this statement,

sgfrye wrote:
I have no need to add 1420 lbs of cargo but would like to know where I stand if I wanted to tow with fresh water and more supplies

Your 1,420# cargo number is not right. You only have 720# of cargo capacity left on the camper. An issue is you do not know your loaded tongue weight. That is very important as adding fresh water may raise it (good) or lower it (can be bad depending)

If your fresh tank is directly over the axles, adding water to the tank is close to neutral to tongue weight, you gain GVW but it may not affect the loaded TW. It will however lower the percentage of loaded TW per GVW and that too may not be good depending on what the numbers are.

If the fresh tank is forward of the axles, then some weight will add to the axles and some to the tongue. How much depends on where the tank is located. Closer to the axles means less TW gain. Closer to the front of the camper means more TW gain.

Since it is a rear kitchen, yes adding weight forward of the axles is a ideally where you want to add it. You "might" be able to add some gear in the kitchen but again you need to know the current loaded TW so you can determine what percent the loaded TW is per the loaded GVW. On a TT, ideally this is 12% or higher for natural low anti sway on the trailer and to allow some room for cargo to change from trip to trip and not go down into the 10% or lower area. You have a good truck to hold the added TW and bed gear, you just need to optimize the setup.

Your trailer axles are rated for 7,000# GAWR. You have to watch that too to not go over that rating or overload one side of the camper. But since you can only add 720# total before reaching the 7,720 GVWR of the total trailer, odds are you do not load all 720# right on the axles.

If you have a front bedroom with a front large pass through cargo hole, adding gear under the bed and in the cargo hole will add a good amount of tongue weight. This can help allow small gear to go into the kitchen or axle area.

The fresh tank, need to find out where that is located and hopefully it is not behind the axles. Most TT mfg's know rear kitchens are tail heavy and put the fresh tank forward of the axles but not always.

This is truly a balancing act... The good news is, you are trying to sort it out and you are learning in the process. Good for you!! Not all take the time to do this.

Hope this helps

John

sgfrye wrote:
Thank you that's why I'm lost.

Weighed truck on scales with me in drivers seat. Didn't include wife's weight she wasn't with me.

Steer axle 3800 lbs
Drive axle 2840 lbs

6640 lb total


Truck and TT together

Steer axle 3420
Drive axle 3920
Trailer 6300

Gross weight 13640




I got trailer weight 7000 by subtracting truck weight from gross weight. Maybe that was wrong? 6640lbs truck -13640 total weight on cat scales =7000


Tag on trailer has 7720 gvwr.
Axles are 2 x 3500lbs gawr

The short answer is your trailer axles are good to 7000 lbs. The trailer GVWR assumes at least 720 lbs of the total is carried by the truck. In your case you have 720 lbs of capacity left for the trailer, but assuming at least 10 percent of the added load goes onto the hitch, your trailer axles won’t hit 7000 lbs.

It seems like you WDH isn’t putting much back on the front as it’s almost 400 lbs lighter with the trailer.

Thank you that's why I'm lost.

Weighed truck on scales with me in drivers seat. Didn't include wife's weight she wasn't with me.

Steer axle 3800 lbs
Drive axle 2840 lbs

6640 lb total


Truck and TT together

Steer axle 3420
Drive axle 3920
Trailer 6300

Gross weight 13640




I got trailer weight 7000 by subtracting truck weight from gross weight. Maybe that was wrong? 6640lbs truck -13640 total weight on cat scales =7000


Tag on trailer has 7720 gvwr.
Axles are 2 x 3500lbs gawr

Yes, in that case you have 1400# left.
Whats on the tongue resting on the truck does not count toward your axle capacities.