Forum Discussion
ksss wrote:
BurbMan wrote:
Turtle n Peeps wrote:
I'm beginning to figure out how they sell these trucks and who they sell them too. :B LOL
Boy that really puts a fine point on the discussion....had coffee coming out of my nose when I read that! LOL!!! Definitely in the "It's only funny because it's true" category...
Think about it, the 6.0 came out in 2003, so Ford is now 10 years later still trying to market a reliable diesel. All motors and vehicles need repairs, but some of the repair bills on these Fords are off the charts!! Combined with the V-10 sparkplug FUBAR, their powertrain engineering team needs a re-org....
The powertrain team at Ford may have dropped the ball since 03. However the Ford marketing group has more than made up for the their pickup's short comings. I would guess the peak of the diesel pickup market started around 1999 give or take. The Ford PS 7.3 was an exceptional powerplant. Even going back to the NA 6.9 and 7.3, they were strong motors for their time. They created a lot of good will during the glory years (thanks to poor offerings from GM and Dodge). Ford since has largely failed to produce a pickup that was equal to the completion since the 6.0. Yet Ford marketing has been successful in creating incredible brand loyalty even though they built the worst product on the market. Anyone know why Ford has been so ignorant on their warranty claims for the 6.7? It's because they can! They have built arguably the worse diesel engine line in the last 10 years and yet they still own the diesel pickup market. GM I am sure does not want to cover those claims over the fuel injection systems but they do, they cant afford not to.
GM and Dodge could not have released the product that Ford has over the last 10 years and survive. No way in hell. Ford excels because they have built a level of brand loyalty with their customers that defies even the worst of products. I would put Ford's customer loyalty right there with John Deere Ag equipment and CAT heavy equipment for brand loyalty. I have read and know guys that threw good money after bad into their 6.0 and 6.4 engines and thanked FORD for their due diligence by buying a 6.7. While some have left the flock, enough stay the course to keep Ford on top of the marketshare leader board.
Regardless if your a Ford fan or not, it is impressive. GM or Ram certainly would love to have the same type of product loyalty.
MY DISCLAIMER (I think the 6.7 is a much better product than either the 6.0 or 6.4 but looks like it still has some teething issues but not nearly the horror show the other two diesels engines have been).
Well you are talking to a guy, that has drank as much blue koolaid as anyone, never really got into this brand loyalty pissing match on here , but owned a 99 7.3 Superduty for nearly 16 years until last friday. I had no real desire to buy a new ford,and overall the 7.3 was nearly flawless over the 16 years, but because of the 6.0 ,6.4,and who knows for a fact how the 6.7 will turn out the ford was not even in the running for me.
Last week I test drove a new Duramax, wow thought it was the truck for me, but thought I would at least give the Ram a look, yes you guessed it , I never took a second look even over my shoulder at that Duramax, Ram it was. Times are changing, and I have to guess there are going to be a lot more like me as time goes on .BurbMan wrote:
Turtle n Peeps wrote:
I'm beginning to figure out how they sell these trucks and who they sell them too. :B LOL
Boy that really puts a fine point on the discussion....had coffee coming out of my nose when I read that! LOL!!! Definitely in the "It's only funny because it's true" category...
Think about it, the 6.0 came out in 2003, so Ford is now 10 years later still trying to market a reliable diesel. All motors and vehicles need repairs, but some of the repair bills on these Fords are off the charts!! Combined with the V-10 sparkplug FUBAR, their powertrain engineering team needs a re-org....
The powertrain team at Ford may have dropped the ball since 03. However the Ford marketing group has more than made up for the their pickup's short comings. I would guess the peak of the diesel pickup market started around 1999 give or take. The Ford PS 7.3 was an exceptional powerplant. Even going back to the NA 6.9 and 7.3, they were strong motors for their time. They created a lot of good will during the glory years (thanks to poor offerings from GM and Dodge). Ford since has largely failed to produce a pickup that was equal to the completion since the 6.0. Yet Ford marketing has been successful in creating incredible brand loyalty even though they built the worst product on the market. Anyone know why Ford has been so ignorant on their warranty claims for the 6.7? It's because they can! They have built arguably the worse diesel engine line in the last 10 years and yet they still own the diesel pickup market. GM I am sure does not want to cover those claims over the fuel injection systems but they do, they cant afford not to.
GM and Dodge could not have released the product that Ford has over the last 10 years and survive. No way in hell. Ford excels because they have built a level of brand loyalty with their customers that defies even the worst of products. I would put Ford's customer loyalty right there with John Deere Ag equipment and CAT heavy equipment for brand loyalty. I have read and know guys that threw good money after bad into their 6.0 and 6.4 engines and thanked FORD for their due diligence by buying a 6.7. While some have left the flock, enough stay the course to keep Ford on top of the marketshare leader board.
Regardless if your a Ford fan or not, it is impressive. GM or Ram certainly would love to have the same type of product loyalty.
MY DISCLAIMER (I think the 6.7 is a much better product than either the 6.0 or 6.4 but looks like it still has some teething issues but not nearly the horror show the other two diesels engines have been).- Double post due to my innate stupidness
- Sounds like Ford has put together the total package. Set the bar for everyone else. With all the different "F" series trucks they sell, they will almost certainly be #1 in sales. And as stated, didn't need any Government bail out, and if they did take any at all, it was promply paid back with interest unlike the unAmerican GM who has failed the American public and per most Ford loyalist, should probably just "close up because of their debt to the American people", and like Ram, who isn't even American anymore and owned by an Itialian company...we should boycott them and hope they too shut down...that way, only Amercian Ford could have it all and we could get rid of the GM and Chrysler/Dodge/Ram/Jeep 'wanna be's"....I mean, that's the American way, at least according to most Ford owners...or at least has been my take on these forums over the years, but guess I could be wrong...We all know Ford is the only truck American car, (nothing in or on it out sourced) and they never took any money to "make ends meet"..
Would be nice if The BIG ONE and the "other little two", paid a little more attention to mpg, but it appears none of the truck manufacturers whose trucks would be used in a towing application, care as much about mpg....it's more about HP, TQ, GVWR, GCWR and taller and bigger.....ah, "the American way".")
Hat's off to Ford... They've set the bar high enough to intimidate the others and force the "other two" to compete or give up, . Turtle n Peeps wrote:
I'm beginning to figure out how they sell these trucks and who they sell them too. :B LOL
Boy that really puts a fine point on the discussion....had coffee coming out of my nose when I read that! LOL!!! Definitely in the "It's only funny because it's true" category...
Think about it, the 6.0 came out in 2003, so Ford is now 10 years later still trying to market a reliable diesel. All motors and vehicles need repairs, but some of the repair bills on these Fords are off the charts!! Combined with the V-10 sparkplug FUBAR, their powertrain engineering team needs a re-org....catfishmontana wrote:
Ric Flair wrote:
GM Duramax is still better you damn dirty Ford apes!
Duramax?.......never heard of her.
Ric Flair wrote:
GM Duramax is still better you damn dirty Ford apes!
Duramax?.......never heard of her.parkersdad wrote:
Airstreamer67 wrote:
Me Again wrote:
And my guess if you look at length of ownership that Dodge RAM/Cummins wins the statistic.
Chris
Well, nothing is perfect. Remember the Cummins' cracked "53" blocks, the killer-dowel pins, the failed lift pumps, the faulty wrist pins, et al, all of which could destroy thousands of dollars of engine. The consumer picked up many of those costs too.
And Ram has chosen an Italian diesel for its 1500 line next year, likely due to its new owners, who were basically given the company after it was bailed out by the American taxpayer, twice.
Ford is not immune. Read these articles if you don't believe me
http://www.forbes.com/sites/joannmuller/2012/08/29/automakers-report-card-who-still-owes-taxpayers-money-the-answer-might-surprise-you/
http://www.forbes.com/sites/joannmuller/2011/09/19/ford-looks-hypocritical-in-new-anti-bailout-commercial/
I know some struggle with it, but there is a big difference between a 6 billion loan to Ford that is expected to be paid back with interest, and a 50 billion bailout of GM, of which 10.5 billion of it is a complete loss, with no chance in hell of ever being paid back.
So, to recap, 6 bil loan paid back with interest is superior to a 10 billion dollar loss.
I'm glad the new GM is still with us, and Chrysler too, and that they are doing well, but even the most optimistic people know deep down that the bailout set a bad precident, and definitely stung.- Congrats to Ford!!! Competition forces all of the brands to step it up!
The difference between my 2008 LMM and 2011 LML was night and day- the power improvements were immediately noticeable. Combine that with better brakes, better chassis... and the truck was just plain better. Why did GM improve an already very good truck? To stay competitive. Certainly they need to do it again!
I will be in the market for a new truck in a year or two and will take a very strong look at all three brands. HP, torque, brakes, transmission, chassis, mpg, weight rating... will all be considered.
If GM isn't competitive I will buy a different brand- So thanks to Ford for bringing the heat and congratulations! LimogesMan wrote:
msjdbman wrote:
Word on the GM truck forums is that the Duramax will see an update in 2017 to around 445 hp and 850 torque. I guess time will tell, as always.
IIRC, the 6.6L Duramax is maxed out in tuning for power / emissions ratio. Isuzu built a great diesel engine, no need to play the leapfrog game.
I don't believe achieving the hp (445) and meeting emissions is the main issue on their hands. The DMax easily handles much higher power levels with all stock components...yes by aftermarket tuning today. It's my understanding that much of anything over the 400 hp/800 tq figures is where the Allison begins to see problems in it's current state. The way that the Allison operates/shifts for the LML was changed compared to the LMM to handle the difference from 360 hp/650 tq up to the current 390/790 ( or what ever it is) levels the LML has. The Allison can be beefed up to handle these higher power levels, but at a cost that the average new truck buyer might not be real thrilled with. Again, it will be intersting to follow and see where GM goes with this. I really don't care, since I'm completely happy with my LMM. I don't figure that I need to have my rig accelerate like a Corvette :B
