DiskDoctr wrote:I have plenty of sources for truck loads of firewood. I could even get a firewood permit and go into the national forest and cut it myself. But I have no interest in storing, bagging and stacking a truck load of wood to make a lousy $150.00. For the record, a couple of years ago we stopped campfires altogether. We were more than willing to give up those millions upon millions of dollars we earned, $5.50 a bag at a time. Wasn't worth the time or the effort to buy the wood, unload the truck, sell the wood, clean the fire pits and deal with the complaints about some people's smoky fires and that was pre-bundled wood which was much easier to handle than a truckload of firewood dumped on the ground. Even if we could have tripled the price without a single complaint about price or a single sale lost, we would still make the same decision. The money made from firewood sales was just insignificant in the big picture. There is a reason many national park and national forest campgrounds allow the camphosts to sell firewood and keep the profits. That reason is, there isn't hardly any profit in firewood by the time you figure in the transportation, storage and cleanup costs.westernrvparkowner wrote:
You have it in writing that the NPS knows one of their employees illegally took wood into a campground, for that campground to sell? Since the campground is making all this money off wood sales, and you know for a fact that your neighbor the NPS employee willfully violates the law, since he personally took wood into a national park when it was prohibited, don't you think that your neighbor is also getting a huge kickback from those wood sales. I smell a scandal of national significance. You do know that a whistleblower can collect up to 10% of recovered monies in these types of cases. You should turn your neighbor in to the local authorities, the IRS, the FBI and maybe the NSA. You have more than enough evidence with your letters from the NPS and the like for a slam dunk case. You could parlay your reward either into a cabinet level position as "decider of fair firewood prices" or use the money to buy a private Island, just like us firewood tycoons.
^^ Sounds like you don't have a source that sells wood by the truckload and are bitter about it? Buy it by the truckload for $100, sell it to 50 campers for $5 each = $150 PROFIT per truckload. No conspiracy needed ;)
I agree some (most?) unscrupulous CG operators (including SPs, etc) are OVERCHARGING for firewood. THAT single factor is what sabotages any firewood control efforts.
I would rather buy firewood at a CG than haul it, but like most people I don't like to be ripped off.
It isn't a matter of not caring, being cheap, or anything of the like. Unfortunately, some people direct their anger at the intelligent campers who are crying foul, rather than at those who are GOUGING campers out of greed.
The greedy are those who deserve your ire. Those who exploit any tragedy for excessive profits deserve our contempt.
Stop the gougers and you'd be surprised how quickly the complaints go away ;)
DiskDoctr wrote:DiskDoctr Well said, very very well said.
^^ Sounds like you don't have a source that sells wood by the truckload and are bitter about it? Buy it by the truckload for $100, sell it to 50 campers for $5 each = $150 PROFIT per truckload. No conspiracy needed ;)
I agree some (most?) unscrupulous CG operators (including SPs, etc) are OVERCHARGING for firewood. THAT single factor is what sabotages any firewood control efforts.
I would rather buy firewood at a CG than haul it, but like most people I don't like to be ripped off.
It isn't a matter of not caring, being cheap, or anything of the like. Unfortunately, some people direct their anger at the intelligent campers who are crying foul, rather than at those who are GOUGING campers out of greed.
The greedy are those who deserve your ire. Those who exploit any tragedy for excessive profits deserve our contempt.
Stop the gougers and you'd be surprised how quickly the complaints go away ;)
westernrvparkowner wrote:
You have it in writing that the NPS knows one of their employees illegally took wood into a campground, for that campground to sell? Since the campground is making all this money off wood sales, and you know for a fact that your neighbor the NPS employee willfully violates the law, since he personally took wood into a national park when it was prohibited, don't you think that your neighbor is also getting a huge kickback from those wood sales. I smell a scandal of national significance. You do know that a whistleblower can collect up to 10% of recovered monies in these types of cases. You should turn your neighbor in to the local authorities, the IRS, the FBI and maybe the NSA. You have more than enough evidence with your letters from the NPS and the like for a slam dunk case. You could parlay your reward either into a cabinet level position as "decider of fair firewood prices" or use the money to buy a private Island, just like us firewood tycoons.
searfoss wrote:You have it in writing that the NPS knows one of their employees illegally took wood into a campground, for that campground to sell? Since the campground is making all this money off wood sales, and you know for a fact that your neighbor the NPS employee willfully violates the law, since he personally took wood into a national park when it was prohibited, don't you think that your neighbor is also getting a huge kickback from those wood sales. I smell a scandal of national significance. You do know that a whistleblower can collect up to 10% of recovered monies in these types of cases. You should turn your neighbor in to the local authorities, the IRS, the FBI and maybe the NSA. You have more than enough evidence with your letters from the NPS and the like for a slam dunk case. You could parlay your reward either into a cabinet level position as "decider of fair firewood prices" or use the money to buy a private Island, just like us firewood tycoons.westernrvparkowner wrote:searfoss wrote:I like the "donation" angle. I'll use that the next time I have to have our trees trimmed. I'll tell the tree trimming company that I am not going to pay them because I am "donating" the wood for them to resell. Your neighbor caught a break if someone came and removed a fallen tree for free. Since you reported it, do you KNOW the outcome? The park could have been fined or disciplined in other ways. Maybe they had to dispose of that wood, and any other wood they had in their inventory that they couldn't account for the origin, so their labor removing the tree was wasted. Maybe it is was OK for them to bring in that wood, since it was local, but you bringing in wood that they could not vouch for was not. Just because someone says something, doesn't make it true.(for it to be true it has to have been posted on the internet)6dot6 wrote:This is the REAL REASON the campgrounds ban the wood and blame the government laws.
lol. so i imagine you can buy wood locally for a small fee of say....first born child?
My neighbor cut a tree down and since he worked for NPS he gave most of the wood to the CG in the Federal Forest where he worked, and gave me a portion for camping. I called to make reservations at the CG he gave the wood to, and they told me about the "Outside Wood Ban" I told him the address where my wood came from and he said that since it was outside the Federal Forest Area i could not bring it in, but they did have some for sale, i.e. the wood from the same tree at the same address. I decided to let the NPS know that the camp ground that NPS leased out was selling wood from outside the NPS in violation of law and I won't stay there, nor will my neighbor donate any more wood to them.
If the CG cared about the bugs they would not accept free wood to sell at a profit.
When we went to Elk Neck MD we took construction scrap for the fire, it bug free.
Like I said before, this thread is full of a bunch of cheapskates trying to justify breaking a law or rule to save a couple of bucks. I just wish JJ hadn't let it slip that us super-rich firewood purveyors all have private islands.
My neighbor WORKED, i.e. was employed by NPS (National Park Service) he cut the tree down himself and took it to the camp ground as a donation. He didn't do it to be cheap he did it to help the CG, around here if you cut a tree down a place the wood at the curb for free, people will gladly take it. So he didn't save anything by hauling it to the camp.
The NPS told me that the CG lied or "miss-spoke" that the tree was in a region that the wood is allowed in the CG. I have that in writing from them.
NOW TO CLARIFY: It is not the wood ban that I dislike, it is that CG use it to over charge campers for wood.
There is a CG we like,and on the road side about a mile from the CG is a sign "Buy Wood From a Vet" and it is $5.00 a wheel barrow. That is an honest price, where the CG charges $5.00 for 6 or 7 pieces. If CG charged like the "Vet" I wouldn't take wood anywhere and increase my MPG while towing.
westernrvparkowner wrote:searfoss wrote:I like the "donation" angle. I'll use that the next time I have to have our trees trimmed. I'll tell the tree trimming company that I am not going to pay them because I am "donating" the wood for them to resell. Your neighbor caught a break if someone came and removed a fallen tree for free. Since you reported it, do you KNOW the outcome? The park could have been fined or disciplined in other ways. Maybe they had to dispose of that wood, and any other wood they had in their inventory that they couldn't account for the origin, so their labor removing the tree was wasted. Maybe it is was OK for them to bring in that wood, since it was local, but you bringing in wood that they could not vouch for was not. Just because someone says something, doesn't make it true.(for it to be true it has to have been posted on the internet)6dot6 wrote:This is the REAL REASON the campgrounds ban the wood and blame the government laws.
lol. so i imagine you can buy wood locally for a small fee of say....first born child?
My neighbor cut a tree down and since he worked for NPS he gave most of the wood to the CG in the Federal Forest where he worked, and gave me a portion for camping. I called to make reservations at the CG he gave the wood to, and they told me about the "Outside Wood Ban" I told him the address where my wood came from and he said that since it was outside the Federal Forest Area i could not bring it in, but they did have some for sale, i.e. the wood from the same tree at the same address. I decided to let the NPS know that the camp ground that NPS leased out was selling wood from outside the NPS in violation of law and I won't stay there, nor will my neighbor donate any more wood to them.
If the CG cared about the bugs they would not accept free wood to sell at a profit.
When we went to Elk Neck MD we took construction scrap for the fire, it bug free.
Like I said before, this thread is full of a bunch of cheapskates trying to justify breaking a law or rule to save a couple of bucks. I just wish JJ hadn't let it slip that us super-rich firewood purveyors all have private islands.
searfoss wrote:I like the "donation" angle. I'll use that the next time I have to have our trees trimmed. I'll tell the tree trimming company that I am not going to pay them because I am "donating" the wood for them to resell. Your neighbor caught a break if someone came and removed a fallen tree for free. Since you reported it, do you KNOW the outcome? The park could have been fined or disciplined in other ways. Maybe they had to dispose of that wood, and any other wood they had in their inventory that they couldn't account for the origin, so their labor removing the tree was wasted. Maybe it is was OK for them to bring in that wood, since it was local, but you bringing in wood that they could not vouch for was not. Just because someone says something, doesn't make it true.(for it to be true it has to have been posted on the internet)6dot6 wrote:This is the REAL REASON the campgrounds ban the wood and blame the government laws.
lol. so i imagine you can buy wood locally for a small fee of say....first born child?
My neighbor cut a tree down and since he worked for NPS he gave most of the wood to the CG in the Federal Forest where he worked, and gave me a portion for camping. I called to make reservations at the CG he gave the wood to, and they told me about the "Outside Wood Ban" I told him the address where my wood came from and he said that since it was outside the Federal Forest Area i could not bring it in, but they did have some for sale, i.e. the wood from the same tree at the same address. I decided to let the NPS know that the camp ground that NPS leased out was selling wood from outside the NPS in violation of law and I won't stay there, nor will my neighbor donate any more wood to them.
If the CG cared about the bugs they would not accept free wood to sell at a profit.
When we went to Elk Neck MD we took construction scrap for the fire, it bug free.
