Stopping.. or lack there of, when fully loaded-- Brake Pads

I would like to ask this topic be about pads only, here's the back-story.

So... Long story short, I almost always turn my own wrenches. But a circumstance about a month ago led me to have to use a shop down the street. I abruptly needed new front wheel bearings and no time to do it myself, I was leaving the very next day on a week-long vaca. While he was at it, I had him do everything--front pads, rotors and calipers.

Now I don't stop anywhere near as good loaded as I did before, bordering on flat out scary. Brakes feel mushy and lack grab. I have of course went back to him and insisted he put the exact same Ceramic pads I had before. He did not. He said he put these Hawk pads on ambulances. He seemed to think the pads may be bad, and did a like-for-like replacement.

I have had the system power-bled, no air in the system, no change before/after. No pull either left or right from the new front calipers. Infrared temp shows they are clearly working, the rotors get plenty hot. Anti-lock will not kick on loaded now, before I could. I can only get the anti-lock to activate empty now.

So.... Now that I got the back-story covered, back to my original ask --- Pads.

Organic
Semi-Metallic
Ceramic
Carbon-Composite

I had Ceramic. I called EBC brakes today. They said, very convincingly, I should go with thier EBC Carbon-Composite. They said these have the highest friction coefficient of any pad they have for my truck. (Model ED91308 if anyone wants to investigate). $200 for just front pads. The're quite proud of them.

They said they will create the highest gripping power possible on stock (new) rotors without causing overheat. I don't care about dust or actual rotor wear, I want to stop. Period. My truck is an '01 with 70k miles. If I run the rotors out in 20k, heck, that's like 5 years from now for me. but they did reiterate, they won't eat my rotors up.
They claim to have an FMSI friction level coding rating of G--based on a scale from E to H, H being Nascar racing pads.

So--
Pads.

Who has done a pad swap and noticed a difference from before to after - EXCLUDING worn out vs. new, I'm talking going from one brand/type to another when loaded.

Thanx all!

Truck Campers

13 Replies

skipbee
Explorer
May 07, 2016
There was a fellow named Mike who operated a Lance dealership in Highpoint, NC. He had been a NASCAR tech previously, When I asked him for advise for pads on our F-350 he suggested, "Performance Friction" brand.
He said this was the type most often used by NASCAR. I did and they are excellent stopping and wear wise.
Boatycall
Explorer
May 06, 2016
Addressing the air comments--
Of course they swore they were bled when installed, I also then happened to be at a place that usually fixes flats for free and used to have free beef.... While I was waiting for the flat, I had them power-bleed the entire system. $50, no difference at all other than I now have new brake fluid.

Fast forward past a few calls to various specialty shops today. If I get EBC pads and they're not all that and a bag of chips, tough, I own 'em. No one that sells them will take them back if I don't feel they made $200 difference. I expect they will make a difference, but I'd like to have them backed up.

So, my test will be--
I bought the best Carbon-metallic pads the local ORiellys had. The manager said he himself put these on his truck after he lifted and went 37s, and said they made a huge difference. And, if I don't like them, I can take them back.

What I intend to do is to only replace one side, then do a test drive. If they are truly better, I should get a pull to that side. I have the pads, I'll try this tomorrow.
Tom_Anderson
Explorer
May 06, 2016
Some vehicles need to be bled with a scanner, utilizing the ABS pump.

I replaced my front and rear pads with EBC Yellow Stuff about 20k miles ago and noticed a HUGE difference in stopping power. Only problem is, I just had to replace them again a couple of weeks ago because they were almost metal-to-metal. Also, they made more brake dust than any other pads I've ever used. I replaced them with Centric Fleet Performance pads, which seem to work fine so far. They don't have quite the bite of the EBC pads, but they'll hopefully last longer.
HMS_Beagle
Explorer
May 06, 2016
I too have found that the 14"+ pads on my 2015 F350 stop better than the 12" pads on my '99 F350. :)

But if you did not have mushy brakes before, and all they did was rotors and pads, the air in the system and the hoses are the same before and after. My guess is they feel spongy now because the replacement pads have a lower coefficient of friction, requiring a heavier foot and higher brake pressure, which will flex everything more.

The heat generated in stopping the truck will be independent of the pad chosen (1st law of thermo).

At least you confirmed why it is you always turn your own wrenches!
ticki2
Explorer
May 06, 2016
If you have eliminated air in the lines you might want to check the soft brake hoses , especially with the age of the truck . Weak soft lines will expand when brakes are applied and feel much like air in the lines .
midnightsadie
Explorer II
May 06, 2016
you got air.
Hideout17
Explorer
May 06, 2016
First off did they properly seat the brakes in? Find a low traffic road and drive truck to 45ish mph and lightly slow down. Go back up to 45ish and repeat. About 6 to 8 times. Drive back other way and try not to use brakes allowing them to cool down. This is how I always seated brakes when I was a tech. Yes brakes will get hot and smell. If wheels are torques properly and brake job was done right, rotor to hub cleaned, the rotors will not warp. If this doesn't help get new pads. Some pads require heat in them before pads work right. Its possible pads are too hard for you. Also make sure rotors and pads are correct size. I have seen small
Rotors installed with normal pads and car would stop and pedal felt crappy too....
Boatycall
Explorer
May 06, 2016
jimh425 wrote:
I swapped mine from F350 SRW to F450 DRW. :) It is really night and day difference.

I hate you... go away. :D
cewillis
Explorer
May 06, 2016
"Brakes feel mushy " Sure sounds like air somewhere it shouldn't be.
rider997
Explorer
May 06, 2016
This is a very tricky question with numerous tradeoffs.

To generalize, semi-metallic or sintered semi-metallic pads will have the highest coefficient of friction and initial bite. They are also noisier, cause greater rotor wear, and transmit more heat to the caliper and brake fluid, potentially causing fade during prolonged or repeated applications.

OEM NAO (organic) pads tend to have a fairly good balance of friction, longevity, and wear characteristics.

Many aftermarket "ceramic" pads have little or no metal elements and are targeted to a consumer that is afraid of noise and brake dust, thus creating a pad with horrible initial bite and generally low friction. I would not take these for free.

Racing pad manufacturers (EBC, Ferodo, Galfer, etc.) should have pretty good advice for you, and are likely to have moderately aggressive compounds available for any given application.

I run sintered semi-metallic pads where available (OEM on some of my vehicles). For true racing applications, I'll use carbon-metallic pads.

In your case, I'd tend to agree with EBC- those pads are good. There's a lot of friction material on truck pads, so that price isn't unreasonable. Short of that, consider going back to OEM Ford pads. Don't listen to anything the sales droid has to say at a national chain auto parts store- they don't know what they're talking about.