Itasca Sunstar 30T or Winnebago Vista 30T Owners

[sjverkayk]

If you are or have been an owner of one of the above models, we would be interested in hearing about your experiences regarding the handling, instrument panel viewing and communications with the dealer, Winnebago and Ford. If you have made any modifications to make the vehicle safer, please let us know what those were, the costs and how satisfied you have been with those modifications. This is our first RV and we purchased this vehicle because we trusted the Winnebago name and, at the time, did not find any negative reviews for this model.

We have found the vehicle to not track when driving at highway speeds and almost lost control when encountering winds of about 15mph. The other issue is that you can not read the instrument panel when driving in sunny conditions due to the glare from the sun on the plexiglass. We have been in contact with Winnebago, Ford and the dealer. We have since learned that there is a weight distribution issue between the front and rear as well as side to side. This causes the front end to float at higher speeds and to pull to the drivers side. Ford says that there should be at least 35% of the weight over the front axle. Per our scale tickets, this is not the case but Winnebago states that they are in compliance with Ford specs for this chassis.

The local Ford dealer did suggest we take it to a company that specializes in RV suspensions. They say they can correct the handling issues, but when we contacted the manufacturer, Winnebago customer service rep stated that if we were to make the aftermarket suspension modifications, our warranty would be voided. We then contacted the dealer and delivered it to their service department in hopes that the vehicle could be repaired under the warranty.

So, after purchasing in August 2013 and taking two trips, the vehicle has not been used since we delivered it to the dealer on October 14, 2013. If you prefer to not post a reply on the forum, you can email us directly at winnebagowoes@gmail.com.

Thanks for listening.

[grumpytoo]

I've owned 2 Class C's, and 5 class A motorhomes of various brands. Our 1st a 24' Trek on a Chevy chassis. It had a great floor plan, drove terrible. We put over 60,000 miles on it, but you had to hang on and pay attention. I'm sure it was to short, to tall, and had no engineering.
The next couple coaches drove fine. Then came our 1999 Monaco 38' Diplomat, it was horrible. I asked around 2 or 3 car alignment centers. I told them I had a big bus I need aligned, to big for their shops. All of them recommend the same place, I was lucky. The alignment shop told me the Roadmaster chassis, was built wrong. I didn't like hearing that, it was a new coach. I don't recall the exact story, basically the holes in the chassis, the ones used for aligning the front end, where a 1/2" from where they should have been. I called Monaco and had the local mechanic talk to them, I wanted Monaco to pay for it. With in a couple minutes the mechanic handed me the phone, said the guy at Monaco didn't know what he was talking about. I said good bye to Monaco. Then told the shop to fix it if they could. They had to order some special bolts, I think. When I returned my coach was aligned, for under $150. It drove great, just like a car, I never had another problem with it. Oh, Monaco called me the day after my first call, same guy I had talked with the previous day. He told me he was wrong, he didn't know what he was talking about. He said the local mechanic was correct with his diagnosis, for me to get my coach fix, Monaco would pay for it. I was very impressed with him and Monaco.
First thing I would recommend if a coach doesn't drive well, it take it to an alignment shop, a GOOD alignment shop. It's a shame that the manufactures don't check before they ship, but they don't. The delivery driver doesn't care either, their job is done. They just want you to sign here and get them to the airport.
I've walked away from 2 new coach cash deals, because of handling problems. Both times on the initial test drive I complained about a shimmy at highway speed. On both times the steering wheel shook and everyone in the coach agreed they could feel the shimmy, including the salesman. Both times when I was called and told my coach was ready to go, I asked if the shimmy had been repaired. Both times I was told it had, neither time was it fixed. Once it was considerably worse. Neither dealer seem to care that they lost a deal. I'm sure they figured there's another sucker right behind the last one. My thought, if the dealer or manufacture won't fix a problem before they have your money, you can bet they won't fix it after they have your money.
You'd think a vehicle as expensive as a motorhome would have better engineering and some quality control. I think both are lacking in the RV industry. I'm not interested in buying a vehicle that requires modification to operate properly, that's WiWinnebago's job. We really like the 30T's floor plan and were close to purchasing one. Thanks for your reviews, save us money and aggravation. I guess it's, buyer beware!

[2015RV]

We are owners of the 2015 Winnebago vista 30T, purchased new, just a couple of months ago here in Washington and agree with your observations regarding the poor handling. In addition to the poor handling this particular model seems to be plagued with an endless array of shoddy manufacturing issues that should have been caught at the factory, but were not.

Could we have caught the steering and handling issues during our test drives? Probably not, as most test drives in our experience has been of local nearby roadways typically guided by the dealership. The highway portion of the test drive was not enough to adequately gauge the motorhome's true handling. In my option, it is bordering on unsafe at highway speeds.

Let me just get this out and be very upfront, the dealer so far has been very responsive and tackled the issues. Another reality is, this motorhome sits on a Ford F53 chassis and is for all intensive purposes is an entry level class A motorhome. Yes, he is an attractive looking motorhome and owners of this particular brand of model, must be vigilant to ensure our family safety when operating on the highways.

[jhilley]

sjverkayk wrote:

skipole wrote:
I made almost the exact same mods as Goldencrazy to my Itasca 30T. Only slight differences in air pressure on the air bags on the Kelderman. We run 80# in the tires and run ¾ full water and empty gray/black. The addition of the Kelderman made the major change in ride handling. I now consider it my "front engine diesel pusher" as far as ride goes. To help handling I move a lot of my weight toward the front. We tow a 2009 Yaris (2200#) and it doesn't significantly change the handling.

We live in Albuquerque if you want to stop when you are in the area and take a ride.

skipole

Thanks for the post. I am feeling much more confident in moving forward with these mods and appreciate the offer of the test drive. Did you run into any warranty related disputes with Winnebago?

The warranty issue wouldn't be with Winnebago, it would be with Ford as it is suspension related.

[skipole]

sjverkayk wrote:

skipole wrote:
I made almost the exact same mods as Goldencrazy to my Itasca 30T. Only slight differences in air pressure on the air bags on the Kelderman. We run 80# in the tires and run ¾ full water and empty gray/black. The addition of the Kelderman made the major change in ride handling. I now consider it my "front engine diesel pusher" as far as ride goes. To help handling I move a lot of my weight toward the front. We tow a 2009 Yaris (2200#) and it doesn't significantly change the handling.

We live in Albuquerque if you want to stop when you are in the area and take a ride.

skipole

Thanks for the post. I am feeling much more confident in moving forward with these mods and appreciate the offer of the test drive. Did you run into any warranty related disputes with Winnebago?

NO Winnebago problems to date. Last year at the Winnebago GNR I even recommended to Winnebago that they offer it as an option. Two of their engineers came by to look at it but no comments back so far.

I've mod'd every RV i've owned. It appears that Winnebago warranties the box and refers you to the chassis mfgr for chassis stuff. At least in my experience.

skipole

[sjverkayk]

skipole wrote:
I made almost the exact same mods as Goldencrazy to my Itasca 30T. Only slight differences in air pressure on the air bags on the Kelderman. We run 80# in the tires and run ¾ full water and empty gray/black. The addition of the Kelderman made the major change in ride handling. I now consider it my "front engine diesel pusher" as far as ride goes. To help handling I move a lot of my weight toward the front. We tow a 2009 Yaris (2200#) and it doesn't significantly change the handling.

We live in Albuquerque if you want to stop when you are in the area and take a ride.

skipole

Thanks for the post. I am feeling much more confident in moving forward with these mods and appreciate the offer of the test drive. Did you run into any warranty related disputes with Winnebago?

[skipole]

I made almost the exact same mods as Goldencrazy to my Itasca 30T. Only slight differences in air pressure on the air bags on the Kelderman. We run 80# in the tires and run ¾ full water and empty gray/black. The addition of the Kelderman made the major change in ride handling. I now consider it my "front engine diesel pusher" as far as ride goes. To help handling I move a lot of my weight toward the front. We tow a 2009 Yaris (2200#) and it doesn't significantly change the handling.

We live in Albuquerque if you want to stop when you are in the area and take a ride.

skipole

[Goldencrazy]

I agree with Wolfe. I went into my 30T knowing I would need to make modifications so I factored it into my overall cost. I travel with a toad. Sometimes Smart Car and sometimes Jeep Grand Cherokee. Heavier toad seems to make handling a bit better although mine isn't bad. Half load generally in tanks. I think five pounds of air makes a difference. I run 58 lbs in my rear bags and 43 in front which seems to work well. Air them up in heavy wind.

[Goldencrazy]

I agree with Wolfe. I went into my 30T knowing I would need to make modifications so I factored it into my overall cost. I travel with a toad. Sometimes Smart Car and sometimes Jeep Grand Cherokee. Heavier toad seems to make handling a bit better although mine isn't bad. Half load generally in tanks. I think five pounds of air makes a difference. I run 58 lbs in my rear bags and 43 in front which seems to work well. Air them up in heavy wind.

[sjverkayk]

While it appears that there are state lemon laws that protect auto vehicle owners, they seem to be lacking when it comes to RVs. So, RV owners have to accept that RVs are not being engineered to be safe out of the factory. It would seem that RV manufacturers and dealers are being deceptive in not disclosing this information to allow the purchaser to make an informed decision. This appears to be the reality and acceptable. I am surprised that there are not more complaints being made to such organizations as the NHTSA, local DOT or attorney generals and the BBB. It is very easy to register a complaint either online or by submitting it in a letter. I encourage everyone to file a complaint. Until more owners do so, things will not improve and could become worse. I have heard that since 1995, RVs have become less safe. Your family and friends share the road with RVs everyday. It is a bit disconcerting that safety is not as important as sales when it comes to RVs. Naïve, perhaps.

[sjverkayk]

wolfe10 wrote:

sjverkayk wrote:
We are concerned that our warranty would be voided if we were to make such changes. Had you heard anything similar regarding your modifications?

We are new to RVs, so we were alarmed that we would have to make modifications to correct the handling issues due to what appears to be a design defect in how they placed equipment under the coach. Is it typical in the RV industry for the customer to eat those costs and forfeit their warranty?

Warranty would only be in question if the modification caused failure of another part that was under warranty. The parts you are replacing/adding are extremely unlikely to negatively impact other components.

BUYERS are at fault for less than exemplary chassis. I know that should harsh, but if coach manufacturer A spend an extra $600 on suspension and another coach manufacturer B spent an extra $600 on upgrading interior fabric, which do you think would sell more coaches??

Until buyers are willing to pay more for a good riding and handling chassis AND they convey that information to the coach makers, assume that you, the buyer will need to do these upgrades after purchase. And, today's gas coaches are on much better chassis than were available in the past.

Please do not assume that I agree with this, but it IS the way it is.

BTW, I present the Suspension Seminars at FMCA Conventions, so am reasonably familiar with how this works.

Thank you for the response. I appreciate your insight and hear what you are saying. I also appreciate the clarification on the warranty, the rep at Winnebago made it sound as though the entire warranty would be void. I would be very interested to learn more about the information that you present at your suspension seminars.

[sjverkayk]

Thank you again for the post. I did leave some detail out in my original posting. We did have an alignment done and the tires balanced. Per Goodyear, the tires are at 85psi. Would 80psi make that much of a difference? We also installed a stabilizer bar in the front. These changes did not make much of a difference in our case. So, we are looking at the more extensive modifications. Do you travel with a tow vehicle and water in the fresh water tank? Any issues with that?

While we are new to RVs, we have owned several travel trailers and a 5th wheel. My husband was a truck driver for over 25 years and was also a certified truck driving instructor. After leaving the trucking industry, he drove for Greyhound for a couple of years and was a city bus driver for about 5 years. So, he can pretty much handle anything and is amazed that if this were a commercial vehicle it would not be allowed on the highway. Since I am inexperienced, he is concerned for my safety and I have not driven it except for on city streets.

We have taken the vehicle to a Ford dealer after having it scaled per Ford Chassis Division. It was the service advisor that noted on the service ticket the scale results, which showed that there was less than 35% of the weight over the front axle, he also noted that the front bins were fully loaded and the rear bins lightly loaded, that there was no water in the fresh water tank and that there was a full tank of gas. He also noted the equipment distribution between the driver and passenger sides, which may cause the vehicle to pull to the right. He then noted that there was over 50% of the vehicle behind the rear axle (132" behind axle on a 190" wheelbase).

Add this all together and it shows a vehicle that should be on a longer wheelbase and will have poor handling characteristics. I am hoping that by posting this information, it will help others in making a more informed decision. I was just so excited about the vehicle layout and features, that we didn't spend much time educating ourselves.

I am happy to hear that this is correctable.

[wolfe10]

sjverkayk wrote:
We are concerned that our warranty would be voided if we were to make such changes. Had you heard anything similar regarding your modifications?

We are new to RVs, so we were alarmed that we would have to make modifications to correct the handling issues due to what appears to be a design defect in how they placed equipment under the coach. Is it typical in the RV industry for the customer to eat those costs and forfeit their warranty?

Warranty would only be in question if the modification caused failure of another part that was under warranty. The parts you are replacing/adding are extremely unlikely to negatively impact other components.

BUYERS are at fault for less than exemplary chassis. I know that should harsh, but if coach manufacturer A spend an extra $600 on suspension and another coach manufacturer B spent an extra $600 on upgrading interior fabric, which do you think would sell more coaches??

Until buyers are willing to pay more for a good riding and handling chassis AND they convey that information to the coach makers, assume that you, the buyer will need to do these upgrades after purchase. And, today's gas coaches are on much better chassis than were available in the past.

Please do not assume that I agree with this, but it IS the way it is.

BTW, I present the Suspension Seminars at FMCA Conventions, so am reasonably familiar with how this works.

[Goldencrazy]

I had no idea about warranty being voided although I have had no warranty work on either 30W or the current 30T on anything involved with suspension. From what I have read modifications are common. You are new to the motorhome so it will take awhile to get used to driving it. Remember it is a kite. I would first do the cheap handling fix and also adjust tire inflation. I would also then add a good steering stabilizer. See how that goes and work from there. Cheapest things first and build. I do think a good rear trac bar will be important as well. Keep us posted on how it works and what you learn.

[sjverkayk]

Thank you for your response. The detail you provided is very helpful and it is in line with the modifications that are being recommended to us. Sounds like those changes were successful. We are concerned that our warranty would be voided if we were to make such changes. Had you heard anything similar regarding your modifications?

We are new to RVs, so we were alarmed that we would have to make modifications to correct the handling issues due to what appears to be a design defect in how they placed equipment under the coach. Is it typical in the RV industry for the customer to eat those costs and forfeit their warranty?