I hope this is the right forum for this. I am taking delivery on a 2016 Itasca Solei 38R pusher in a few weeks and want to put an Overbuilt motorcycle carrier on it rather than towing a trailer. The lift plus my Gold Wing tags in a 1,300 lbs. Overbuilt says it's no problem for the frame to handle and the dealer says the unit can handle it also. BUT, here's what I'm looking for.What happens to the control characteristics of the coach? The math doesn't change ... the rear wheels are a fulcrum and the more weight you put behind them, the lighter the front end becomes. The question is how much? Does this negatively impact control or are the effects negligible? I've checked a variety of forums and what I am looking for but can't seem to find is someone who owned a motorhome, drove it for a while and then put one of these things on. Lots of opinions and generalities but no hard facts (at least that i could find).Long story, simple question: did the installation of this unit make your diesel pusher noticeably "lighter" in the front end?Thanks!

Absolutely! To find out how much weight comes off the front end, measure the distance from the rear axle to the estimated center of gravity of the lift/motorcycle. Divide the combined weight of the lift/motrcycle by this distance and multiply by the wheelbase, and you will have the weight reduction on the front axle.

Peralko - thanks. That's the math and while I can figure the change in weight distribution, I want to hear about the actual hands on effect from someone who has driven their coach before and after. I other words, does it "feel" noticeably lighter?Thanks!

It,s not the 600 lbs you are going to take off the front, it's the 1900 lbs you are going to put on the rear axle that's the problem. What is the hitch rated for and how much CCC do you have?

Take a look at http://www.hydralift-usa.com/, I saw one several years ago in Florida and was envious , now that we finally own a DP I searched and found them on sale till the end of March,shipped to my door at a somewhat reasonable price for a fine piece of equipment. I haven't had time to install yet but I have inspected it and a well built lift,if other things like truck tranny, hot water heater, tractor ac,and heaven forbid something else fails I will get it installed someday and will report, I intend to carry my golf cart on the sports adapter, I can see that a tag axle would help with the weight transfer problem but don't have it.

BigGuy82 wrote:I hope this is the right forum for this. I am taking delivery on a 2016 Itasca Solei 38R pusher in a few weeks and want to put an Overbuilt motorcycle carrier on it rather than towing a trailer. The lift plus my Gold Wing tags in a 1,300 lbs. Overbuilt says it's no problem for the frame to handle and the dealer says the unit can handle it also. BUT, here's what I'm looking for.What happens to the control characteristics of the coach? The math doesn't change ... the rear wheels are a fulcrum and the more weight you put behind them, the lighter the front end becomes. The question is how much? Does this negatively impact control or are the effects negligible? I've checked a variety of forums and what I am looking for but can't seem to find is someone who owned a motorhome, drove it for a while and then put one of these things on. Lots of opinions and generalities but no hard facts (at least that i could find).Long story, simple question: did the installation of this unit make your diesel pusher noticeably "lighter" in the front end?Thanks!BigGuy82, Well Sir, I've got the "Hands on" knowledge you're looking for. In all PRACTICAL reality, you can "calculate" all you want, but, it's the end result that speaks for itself. I've done exactly what you're asking about. One of the main differences from mine to yours is, I used what I consider (and most others do too) to be the top lift on the market. And that was a Hydralift. If you've looked into all the available lifts, you more than likely know about it vs any other lift on the market.Waaaaaaaaaaaaay less moving parts and, considerably more stable while the coach is in movement. But, I'm not here to try and change your mind on lifts. Use what you feel is right for you. Another difference between your operation and mine is, your coach is 2' longer than ours. Ours is an '04 Itasca Horizon 36GD with the C-7 330HP CAT and, Allison MH3000 Trans. We are exactly the same in terms of the motorcycle though. Ours is an '08 Level II GL 1800 Goldwing. Basically both our bikes are within only a few pounds of each other. The Hydralift hovers around 375-400 lbs. Now, long story short: I weighed my coach, prior to any addition of any lift or the bike. Basically it was loaded for a trip. Full fuel, propane and, 90 gallons of fresh water. I'm not one that sweats the "added weight" of water. If you've ever been in a break down situation for a few days, but, get to stay in your coach while it's being fixed, you definitely appreciate the full tank of water. Anyway, the coach was loaded. It came in at 16,900 lbs. for the rear and, 9,180 for the front. Now, the GAWR for the rear is, 17,500 lbs. and the GAWR front is, 10,400 lbs. So, right off the bat, I KNEW I was going to be over weight of the rear axle rating if I were to add a lift and, our Wing. It's my rig, no warranty is present and, if I break it, it's mine to fix. So, I decided to go for it. We purchased a used Hydralift off of ebay ($1,800) and it was in flawless condition. I did the install. I removed the factory 10,000 lb. rated trailer hitch/receiver and, utilized the holes in the frame, to mount the steel needed to adapt to the Hydralift brackets. It worked flawless. When all was said and done, it looked really nice back there. We hauled our Wing all over the Western U.S. and, towed our '04 Jeep Rubicon along with it. Now, here's what YOU asked about. The HANDLING. What I can tell you is, there was absolutely NO ILL HANDLING EFFECTS WHAT SO EVER, PERIOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That coach drove straight down the road as if it had "0" extra weight on the back at all. There was NO porpoising, NO wandering, NO shimmying, NOTHING! The ride height sensors did their job flawlessly. I measured the body height prior to the install and, as it would be running down the road. I added the lift and, the Wing and, guess what, it was the exact same height, with the lift and the Wing back there. The front changed by 1/16th of an inch. As stated, we toured all over with that setup. And, I inspected that lift, all the welds, (I had to weld the cradle brackets to the adaptive steel that I used) all the mounting points, nuts and bolts etc. on a regular basis. Not one crack, not one broken bolt, not one of them EVER came loose and the clearances of all the parts (I positioned that lift to within 3/8" of the back of the rig so I would have the least possible "leverage" effect) remained at the same clearances I started with for all the time that lift was on the coach. OK, now, here's the deal. We traveled over 8,000 miles with that exact setup. But, we'd changed toads a couple of times and, were not happy with a couple of things. One, the toads, we'd changed from the Jeep to a Honda CRV and after less than a year, we both hated that car. And, I didn't like the "Bouncing" that the Wing did back there when we encountered some really hideous U.S. roads out there. And believe me, there are really bad roads in EVERY STATE! So, one day, while filling the coach up with diesel, we were at Seven Feathers Casino and RV Resort in Oregon and, right next to the fuel docs there was a certified scale. So, when done filling up, I mosied the rig over to that scale and, asked the nice lady if I could weigh my setup. She motioned me to drive onto that scale. Well, here's the figures.The front of the coach weighed, 8,900 lbs, the rear weighed 20,100 lbs, and, the CRV weighed 3,700 lbs. And of course, the bike and lift were on at the time. What that meant was, I was running down the road, for all 8,000 miles, at 2,600 lbs. overweight on the rear. As for the front, it was still 1,500 lbs. under weight but, it was 280 lbs. less than it weighed without the lift and Wing on the back. Big deal! OK, as stated, there was some things we weren't happy with and one was the toad. We both missed our truck 'cause we sold it a while back so, a decision was made. I'd decided that the coach frame and all the mounting system could take it for ever but, what I was concerned about was the tires on the rear. They were overloaded too. If I'd have blown one of the tires on either side, the remaining tire would IMMEDIATELY take on an extra 1,300 lbs. Not really a good thing. So, we made the decision to change our "M.O." (Cop speak for, Method of Operation). We got home from that trip and, I removed the lift and sold it and, we purchased an '11 GMC Sierra 1500 Extended Cab 4x4 to be used as a toad and, we also purchased a used, (used twice) Rampage motorcycle lift/carrier for the Wing to be carried in the back of the truck. I really miss the Hydralift. It was nice to be able to carry it when only the bike was going to be used on any given trip and no toad was needed. But, things change so, it is what it is. But, as for "REAL WORLD" experience, PM me if you'd like to know more. Take care and have fun hauling your Wing. What a great bike. Below are pics of what we used to do and, what we do now. Scott

Overbilt Motorcycle Lift Experiences | Good Sam Community

Ivylog
Explorer III
Apr 07, 2015
Towing the F150 will not put any tongue weight on the hitch so that 500 lb rating is a non issue. Because in Stopping/Starting you will be putting more forward/backwards on the hitch than it's rated for... I would add a pair of braces from the center receiver to the MH's rails aprox 4' in front of where the hitch fastens to the rails. These braces will look like a V (from the rear) and I would use 2" angle iron for them. They will transfer most of the forces to the rails without exceeding the hitch's rating. With a good brake system for the PU and the bike on a loading system like Fire UP uses I think you will be much happier. Also in the back of the PU the bike is going to stay cleaner.
You will also not be using up a lot of your Cargo Carrying Capacity of the MH which could be as low as 2000 lbs... should be posted behind a cabinet in it or ask the dealer. CCC is how much of your stuff you can add with the MH full of fuel and water and people.
BigGuy82
Explorer
Apr 07, 2015
Ivylog wrote:
Hypoxia is correct that MH's are allowed to have 24K rear axle since 2012. This does not mean that all MHs since then have 24K axles nor can you safely put 24,000 lbs on a 20K axle.
FireUP was 2500 lbs over his rear axle rating and probably withing his tire ratings so the world did not stop spinning, BUT he only did it for 8K miles.
OP, I realize there is nothing we can say about this as you have made your mind up. I am not hung up on going over a rating... it's just a mater of which one and by how much. You will not post what rear axle you have or how much CCC. You did let it slip that you only have a hitch rated for 5,000 lbs and we know that it is not used to mount the lift, BUT that small amount would concern me.
So, for the third time: How much CCC and what is your rear axle rated at (it's posted besides the driver's seat)?
You posted: "Problem is that the combo weighs about 7000 lbs wet and the coach is only rated to tow 5,000." For what's it's worth, I would come closer to exceeding this rating than putting 1300+ lbs that far back on the MH. By adding a V brace to the 5K hitch I'd put the bike in the back of the F150 and not worry about overloading the rear axle of the MH.

Well, I can't get anything off of the vehicle because it won't be delivered until late May (see first post), but the specs say the following:

GCWR 33,000, GVWR 27,910, GAWR (Front) 10,410, GAWR (Rear) 17,500. Based on experience from the dealer and the carrier manufacturer (literally hundreds of single axles over a period of 17 years), I feel pretty safe. I fact, the dealer had a coach similar to mine of the lot with this setup. The bike was a Harley that was a couple hundred pounds lighter, but I still feel this will be fine. As I said - doesn't work? Sell it on Ebay. Once again, they both felt that the additional load on the second wheel (bike vs no bike) would be negligible. One thing for certain is that at this point, I don't feel like I am loading up on risk - otherwise, I wouldn't do it.

That said, I've done a lot of towing with pickups and I'm not familiar with a V-Brace. As I would love to take my truck and my bike along, please explain what this is.

The only option is to jump up to the next model coach with a heavier chassis/engine and spend about $40K more ... ain't happening.
Ivylog
Explorer III
Apr 07, 2015
Hypoxia is correct that MH's are allowed to have 24K rear axle since 2012. This does not mean that all MHs since then have 24K axles nor can you safely put 24,000 lbs on a 20K axle.
FireUP was 2500 lbs over his rear axle rating and probably withing his tire ratings so the world did not stop spinning, BUT he only did it for 8K miles.
OP, I realize there is nothing we can say about this as you have made your mind up. I am not hung up on going over a rating... it's just a mater of which one and by how much. You will not post what rear axle you have or how much CCC. You did let it slip that you only have a hitch rated for 5,000 lbs and we know that it is not used to mount the lift, BUT that small amount would concern me.
So, for the third time: How much CCC and what is your rear axle rated at (it's posted besides the driver's seat)?
You posted: "Problem is that the combo weighs about 7000 lbs wet and the coach is only rated to tow 5,000." For what's it's worth, I would come closer to exceeding this rating than putting 1300+ lbs that far back on the MH. By adding a V brace to the 5K hitch I'd put the bike in the back of the F150 and not worry about overloading the rear axle of the MH.
FIRE_UP
Explorer
Apr 07, 2015
BigGuy82 wrote:
hypoxia wrote:
John S. wrote:
It is 20k per axle not total weight.

That information is obsolete.

23 USC 127
shall not apply to-
"(C) any motor home."

(A) Weight limitations.-A covered State, including any political subdivision of such State, may not enforce a single axle weight limitation of less than 24,000 pounds, including enforcement tolerances, on any vehicle referred to in paragraph (1) in any case in which the vehicle is using the Interstate System.

Great information - thanks! Of course, it also points out the absurdity of the legal system in this country. Who, except the lawyers, could ever keep track of all this stuff?

Back to the original point of this post, I finally had an in-depth chat with both the general manager of my motorhome dealer and the owner of Overbuilt. Both feel that based on hundreds of installations on single axle pushers (especially the Freightliner XCS chassis) there will be absolutely no problem with this setup. Customers report no problems, little (if any) noticeable lightening of the front end and no blown tire or control loss horror stories. Specifically I ask about overloading the remaining tire in a blowout and the comments were that the additional 1300 pounds I'm putting on the ass end won't make much difference one way or the other. If a rear tire actually blows, it will always put tremendous stress on it's mate (which really tells me if a rear tire blows, replace the pair). End of the day, I'm going forward with this and I'll post my experience once I have it.

Thanks!

Well BigGuy,
You've just re-iterated all of what I told you in my post w/pictures. In my setup, it all worked flawlessly. No one died. The sun didn't fall out of the sky, my first born is still alive, the coach handled outstandingly with the additional weight on of the bike and lift on the rear, the amount subtracted from the front, as stated, after the bike and lift were installed, was a hair over 200 lbs. Have a great time with your new setup. It's fun to have an outstanding motorcycle along with you in your travels. Good luck.
Scott
BigGuy82
Explorer
Apr 07, 2015
hypoxia wrote:
John S. wrote:
It is 20k per axle not total weight.

That information is obsolete.

23 USC 127
shall not apply to-
"(C) any motor home."

(A) Weight limitations.-A covered State, including any political subdivision of such State, may not enforce a single axle weight limitation of less than 24,000 pounds, including enforcement tolerances, on any vehicle referred to in paragraph (1) in any case in which the vehicle is using the Interstate System.

Great information - thanks! Of course, it also points out the absurdity of the legal system in this country. Who, except the lawyers, could ever keep track of all this stuff?

Back to the original point of this post, I finally had an in-depth chat with both the general manager of my motorhome dealer and the owner of Overbuilt. Both feel that based on hundreds of installations on single axle pushers (especially the Freightliner XCS chassis) there will be absolutely no problem with this setup. Customers report no problems, little (if any) noticeable lightening of the front end and no blown tire or control loss horror stories. Specifically I ask about overloading the remaining tire in a blowout and the comments were that the additional 1300 pounds I'm putting on the ass end won't make much difference one way or the other. If a rear tire actually blows, it will always put tremendous stress on it's mate (which really tells me if a rear tire blows, replace the pair). End of the day, I'm going forward with this and I'll post my experience once I have it.

Thanks!
Vectron
Explorer
Apr 07, 2015
I just saw this Tandem Tow on the lot the other day. It seems to make a lot more sense than lifting the motorcycle or golf cart off of the ground.
hypoxia
Explorer
Apr 07, 2015
John S. wrote:
It is 20k per axle not total weight.

That information is obsolete.

23 USC 127
shall not apply to-
"(C) any motor home."

(A) Weight limitations.-A covered State, including any political subdivision of such State, may not enforce a single axle weight limitation of less than 24,000 pounds, including enforcement tolerances, on any vehicle referred to in paragraph (1) in any case in which the vehicle is using the Interstate System.
BigGuy82
Explorer
Apr 07, 2015
John S. wrote:
I think you will be overloaded with the lift on. Can you do, sure you can. Would I do it, no. I looked and did the numbers and got a smaller bike and a versa haul ramp. Much lighter setup. You are stressing your unit and if you are only rated for 5000 pounds towing your frame setup is not going to hold a 1000 pounds tongue weight. It is your coach, so do as you wish but it is too small a coach to put the big bike on the rear.

I won't be exceeding the tongue weight. The lift doesn't go on the original hitch. That one is replaced by a hitch with 3 2" receivers - one in the center and two on either side of it - about a foot out from center. These are welded to the frame. The lift rides on the two outside receivers. Tongue weight isn't an issue.
John_S_
Explorer II
Apr 07, 2015
It is 20k per axle not total weight. The PA turnpike the Ohio turnpike to name a couple. In fact the builders a few years back were having problems getting the coaches out of IN. Newell knows if this issue too and they have a switch on the dash to let the tag take extra weight while going slow to remove weight from the drive wheels.
John_S_
Explorer II
Apr 07, 2015
I think you will be overloaded with the lift on. Can you do, sure you can. Would I do it, no. I looked and did the numbers and got a smaller bike and a versa haul ramp. Much lighter setup. You are stressing your unit and if you are only rated for 5000 pounds towing your frame setup is not going to hold a 1000 pounds tongue weight. It is your coach, so do as you wish but it is too small a coach to put the big bike on the rear.