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3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

professor95
Explorer
Explorer
professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy


For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at โ€œcloningโ€ reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a โ€œrunningโ€ display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. โ€œSupposedlyโ€ Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for โ€œabove average qualityโ€ Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an โ€œavailability listingโ€.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings โ€“ most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is โ€œreasonablyโ€ quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a โ€œlook alikeโ€ eng...






















Professor Randy T. Agee & Nancy Agee. Also Oscar, the totally ruined Dachshund.
2009 Cedar Creek 5th Wheel - 2004 Volvo VNL670 class 8 MotorHome conversion as toter.
Turbocharged, 12L, 465 HP and 1,800 ft. Lbs. of torque.
10,029 REPLIES 10,029

Old___Slow
Explorer
Explorer
Professor95:

Some way I just knew you were going to your lab to do some checking. You did not disappoint Old & Slow. Now we all know what to expect from the use of a power strip. Thank you. To continue the subject of the AVR. Yes yes yes I over worked the subject and concern. I do believe the time invested to give your report will pay great dividends. For me the subject will hopefully be history. Thanks again.

Floyd

professor95
Explorer
Explorer
PETE BEALE wrote:
SORRY IF THIS OFFENDS ANYONE.But if you must go out and purchase thes cheep chinese products,then do not compain that America is in a financial downward crash course....If you do not buy the products that your countryman produce then he cannot buy what YOU produce!!!! EASY REALLY.WHEN I GO TO CHINA AND SEE THEM DRIVING US RVs,I WILL THINK DIFERENTLY. PETE BEALE UK. ( if a man fights on my side,I will fight on his side).STICK TOGETHER PLEASE.


Pete,

I doubt that anyone on this thread would disagree with you. But, we do not sustain this forum to argue those issues.

If you have access to the March 08 issue of Consumer Reports, I encourage you to read the article on pages 12 and 13 entitled Made in the USA? The Truth Behind the Labels. It puts it all into perspective.
Professor Randy T. Agee & Nancy Agee. Also Oscar, the totally ruined Dachshund.
2009 Cedar Creek 5th Wheel - 2004 Volvo VNL670 class 8 MotorHome conversion as toter.
Turbocharged, 12L, 465 HP and 1,800 ft. Lbs. of torque.

mcmurphrjk
Explorer
Explorer
If there are no portable generators made in the USA, (or any other product you might think to name) it is only because Americans have proven unwilling to pay $1 more for a product produced in a factory that is willing to pay a wage an American would be willing to work for. Americans are just not willing to support a living wage with our own dollars. and then we *****.
Never argue with an idiot. They will bring you down to their level, and beat youwith experience.

professor95
Explorer
Explorer
O&S wrote:
Professor95:

The question on my mind was concerning the Elim3000. Doing a search I can not find that unit on the market any longer. Somewhere I thought a had read 300,000 had been sold. In doing a quick search I could not find any failures posted. You are well aware of my mistrust of the AVR type gensets. The failure rate must be high. Both you and MrWizard had a AVR failure in the use of the Champion 40008. My question must have no definitive answer as to why the use of a AVR over the use of a capacitor type generator. In another post it was brought out that Honda must love the AVR and all other US importers followed the leader. I might be wrong but it is my thinking the AVR has not been in heavy use in the Far East. I hope the two Chinese gensets I own never have a AVR failure.

So this one question. Is the MOV in the common power strip to be trusted for any possible over voltage with a AVR failure? And if you might tell use, is this the best method to protect our LCD HDTV's?


The ELM3000 was a Jiung Dong built unit. There are thousands of JD units out there and thousands more are being sold. ELIM International no longer carries the JD built product. Check out Harbor Freight, Cummings, and Homier Tools for current models.

There were reports of failures posted earlier on the forum. Some were capacitor related, others were not. Voltage regulation on these units is not as refined. The waveform of the output is also distorted more than the AVR units I have tested.

When my AVR failed, I lost voltage completely. I can understand your distrust of AVR's considering the history you had with the Onan. But, I believe it is perhaps over emphasized due to your bad experience there. The overall incidence of AVR failures appears to be pretty low. While I do not have exact figures, I believe it would be accurate to say these account for a fractional part of 1% of all AVR equipped units sold.

Concerning the MOV. The advice you have been given by Wayne is accurate. The MOV is designed to clip spikes or peaks in voltage, not act as a failsafe regulator. Rather than build on supposition, I set up a test using a MOV.

In the three photos below, the red disc in the center is the MOV. It is rated at an operational voltage of 130 VAC.

I used an autotransformer feeding a 120 volt to 200 volt transformer. The ampclamp was inserted in the feed wire, and the DMM and scope were attached across the MOV. As you can see, I took the voltage all the way up to 200 VAC and the MOV did not shut anything down.

Again, it is designed to protect circuits from power surges of many joules like you would get from a nearby motor starting or a lightning strike. It is not a voltage regulator.

I hope this answers your questions. If not, try again.


Chacteristics at 120 VAC



160 VAC applied to MOV



199.3 (200 VAC) applied to MOV - no failure.
Professor Randy T. Agee & Nancy Agee. Also Oscar, the totally ruined Dachshund.
2009 Cedar Creek 5th Wheel - 2004 Volvo VNL670 class 8 MotorHome conversion as toter.
Turbocharged, 12L, 465 HP and 1,800 ft. Lbs. of torque.

Old___Slow
Explorer
Explorer
PETE BEALE wrote:
o well just a thought..



That is what has caused my downfall on this thread. Engage fingers to quick on the draw from 'thoughs'. Anyway, My two 'Chinese' gennys are a great value and with the first buy I got as close to America as possible with the American company called CPE (Champion) and bought through partsAMERICA.com Great product.

Floyd

PETE_BEALE
Explorer
Explorer
o well just a thought..

MrWizard
Moderator
Moderator
PETE BEALE wrote:
SORRY IF THIS OFFENDS ANYONE.But if you must go out and purchase thes cheep chinese products,then do not compain that America is in a financial downward crash course....If you do not buy the products that your countryman produce then he cannot buy what YOU produce!!!! EASY REALLY.WHEN I GO TO CHINA AND SEE THEM DRIVING US RVs,I WILL THINK DIFERENTLY. PETE BEALE UK. ( if a man fights on my side,I will fight on his side).STICK TOGETHER PLEASE.


wrong thread:

do you own a sony or samsung product, LG, NOKIA, HONDA, yamaha, what PC did you use to type, this, who built your camera, your microwave, your DVD player ?
I can explain it to you.
But I Can Not understand it for you !

....

Connected using T-Mobile Home internet and Visible Phone service
1997 F53 Bounder 36s

Wayne_Dohnal
Explorer
Explorer
PETE BEALE wrote:
.....do not compain that America is in a financial downward crash course.....
You're right that we're on a crash course, and we could easily have 5,000+ posts about that. But just to keep on the subject, are there any 'Made in USA' portable generators that even exist on the market today?
2009 Fleetwood Icon 24A
Honda Fit dinghy with US Gear brake system
LinkPro battery monitor - EU2000i generator

BFRXLT
Explorer
Explorer
PETE BEALE wrote:
SORRY IF THIS OFFENDS ANYONE.But if you must go out and purchase thes cheep chinese products,then do not compain that America is in a financial downward crash course....If you do not buy the products that your countryman produce then he cannot buy what YOU produce!!!! EASY REALLY.WHEN I GO TO CHINA AND SEE THEM DRIVING US RVs,I WILL THINK DIFERENTLY. PETE BEALE UK. ( if a man fights on my side,I will fight on his side).STICK TOGETHER PLEASE.


I could be wrong but I think one would be hard pressed to find many things including a generator that is truly "Made in the USA" these days.

PETE_BEALE
Explorer
Explorer
SORRY IF THIS OFFENDS ANYONE.But if you must go out and purchase thes cheep chinese products,then do not compain that America is in a financial downward crash course....If you do not buy the products that your countryman produce then he cannot buy what YOU produce!!!! EASY REALLY.WHEN I GO TO CHINA AND SEE THEM DRIVING US RVs,I WILL THINK DIFERENTLY. PETE BEALE UK. ( if a man fights on my side,I will fight on his side).STICK TOGETHER PLEASE.

Old___Slow
Explorer
Explorer
Wgeorge11 wrote:
Kajtek1 wrote:
Is this a thread about generators with over 500 replies, or am I drunk?

You're getting close, drunk or sober. Actually there's over 500 pages (that's over 5000 posts), and over 451,000 hits generated these past 2-1/2 years chasing 3000W generators from Shanghai to Virginia. Good alternative stuff in this otherwise imperfect world of portable power at $1-$2 a watt


Yes, I agree, good alternative stuff, if I get the drift? I do miss the mark at times.;) The OEM 4000w genset installed at the factory (one of THOSE BIG name brands), died at age 261 hours with heart (AVR) failure. Then the blame game begins, like, maybe it was the dumb owners fault, the AVR failed. This may be true. At any rate, @ 1.00 per watt (4000w x $1.00 = $4000 the cost of the old beast that died with heart (AVR) failure) I guess it's a imperfect world. Or, maybe I fell off the 'dead horse' and thought he still lives:B

Wayne_Dohnal
Explorer
Explorer
Old & Slow wrote:
Is the MOV in the common power strip to be trusted for any possible over voltage with a AVR failure? And if you might tell use, is this the best method to protect our LCD HDTV's?

If I may butt in with an opinion, a MOV isn't a good choice for this type of failure. It is intended more for short, high-voltage spikes, and not for a sustained over-voltage situation. A Wikipedia article says it well: "Some consumers assume that a MOV inside a TVSS device provides equipment with complete power protection. Unfortunately, a MOV device and other types of surge suppressors provide no protection for the connected equipment from sustained over-voltages that may result in damage to that equipment as well as to the protector device. A potential fire hazard also exists."

For long-term (greater than a few milliseconds)under and over voltage protection a power monitor/protector device is needed. I believe Progressive Industries has one, some or all of the 'Surge Guard' brand devices provide this, as do some inverters with automatic transfer switches (Prosine 2.0 for example). Some of these devices have MOVs built in, and some don't. For the very best protection you need the power protector function and the spike suppression provided by the MOVs. With a failed AVR I suspect the MOVs may not be needed, but don't know this for sure.
2009 Fleetwood Icon 24A
Honda Fit dinghy with US Gear brake system
LinkPro battery monitor - EU2000i generator

Wgeorge11
Explorer
Explorer
Kajtek1 wrote:
Is this a thread about generators with over 500 replies, or am I drunk?

You're getting close, drunk or sober. Actually there's over 500 pages (that's over 5000 posts), and over 451,000 hits generated these past 2-1/2 years chasing 3000W generators from Shanghai to Virginia. Good alternative stuff in this otherwise imperfect world of portable power at $1-$2 a watt
Traveling companion

Old___Slow
Explorer
Explorer
professor95 wrote:
O&S wrote:
Professor95:

All of my questions have been overlooked. It may be time for me to get the message. Hope I am not to old to learn when to hold em' and when to play em' Some really informed folks contribute to this thread and I have been privileged to access so much knowledge.

Floyd
O&S



Floyd,

Your message really confuses me. I'm not sure what questions have been overlooked as many, many have been asked and many more answered.

Please do this for us. Re-ask your questions or provide a link back to them. I am sure someone will respond should I not be able to.

There is no "message"........ No one is intentionally ignoring your questions, or any body else's for that matter. It could be there is no definitive answer to some of the questions.

All of us need to keep in mind the old saying, "You can't make a silk purse out of a cow's ear." 'snip'

Essentially, AVR's are going to fail, genheads will burn out, engines will leak oil, voltage may be irregular and off frequency and carburetors will gum up. It is the nature of these little beasties and those who use them and understand willingly accept the risks. If one is not willing to accept that risk, there are more expensive and technologically advanced gensets out there that can reduce those risks.


Professor95:

The question on my mind was concerning the Elim3000. Doing a search I can not find that unit on the market any longer. Somewhere I thought a had read 300,000 had been sold. In doing a quick search I could not find any failures posted. You are well aware of my mistrust of the AVR type gensets. The failure rate must be high. Both you and MrWizard had a AVR failure in the use of the Champion 40008. My question must have no definitive answer as to why the use of a AVR over the use of a capacitor type generator. In another post it was brought out that Honda must love the AVR and all other US importers followed the leader. I might be wrong but it is my thinking the AVR has not been in heavy use in the Far East. I hope the two Chinese gensets I own never have a AVR failure.

So this one question. Is the MOV in the common power strip to be trusted for any possible over voltage with a AVR failure? And if you might tell use, is this the best method to protect our LCD HDTV's?

Kajtek1
Explorer
Explorer
GULP ! :E
[COLOR=]Pessimist sees dark tunnel, optimist sees a light at the end, realist sees lights of coming train.Engineer sees 3 idiots on the tracks.