3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[eightballsidepo]

CCTAU wrote:

yerlizard wrote:
John, actually I haven't popped a breaker yet, the generator cuts out than comes back on in about 10 seconds. this is after loading up over 15 amps, on a single outlet, I can take the grinder that put me over the limit and plug it in to the other outlet and it runs fine so you get 13.5 amps on each outlet.
I was kind of hoping to get full amperage out of one outlet for running a power saw. 18amp start up. I really like this generator, I was thinking of getting one of those 1.2kw 2 cycle jobs to keep in my work truck. Wildfire is the brand.

Is this the right type of adapter for an rv?

Please don't PM for an answer. Several of us out here have the same model and would like to know if we can combine the duplex plugs into one 30 amp plug. Mr. Wizard? Professor?

As a construction electrician, I would only have this input to your inquirey. Are the two duplex receptacles out of phase, or similar to the to a house electrical panel where you get your 220v from taping each side or phase of the 120/220v panel.

The breakers that are usually stacked one on another in house panel are each 120 volts to ground, but if you a tester on two adjacent breakers or their respective Buss bars that they are connected too, you should get 220 volts, as the bus bars alternately come from each side or 120 volt phase of your input or feed fromt he utility.

So turn on your genny, and put your tester leads in the hot slot of each duplex receptacle and if you get 220 volts you've got two receptacles from different taps of the gennie's windings.

The only thing if you looking for a 30 amp set-up. 220 volts is not the way to get it. The 30 amp receptacles are actually just 120 volts to ground, and a 220 volt set up will not give you that.

If the two duplex receptacles on your genny are separately breakered, then you could possibly do an additive system off of each duplex and draw more than 20 or 15 amps whichever way they duplexes are breakered. If they are both breakered off the same breaker, then your internal wiring is not designed to carry more than the 20-15 amp breakered current at 120 volts.

In order to get 30 amps or 220 volts some of these gennys may need to have their internal taps, splices redone. I'd be careful doing that unless you know your electric motor/generator wire tap configurations, and have a good quality tester to make sure.

[CCTAU]

yerlizard wrote:
John, actually I haven't popped a breaker yet, the generator cuts out than comes back on in about 10 seconds. this is after loading up over 15 amps, on a single outlet, I can take the grinder that put me over the limit and plug it in to the other outlet and it runs fine so you get 13.5 amps on each outlet.
I was kind of hoping to get full amperage out of one outlet for running a power saw. 18amp start up. I really like this generator, I was thinking of getting one of those 1.2kw 2 cycle jobs to keep in my work truck. Wildfire is the brand.

Is this the right type of adapter for an rv?

Please don't PM for an answer. Several of us out here have the same model and would like to know if we can combine the duplex plugs into one 30 amp plug. Mr. Wizard? Professor?

[toprudder]

racefan1965 wrote:
well it is the right type of adapter but only for certain generators. The professor and mrwizard can tell you which way your generator needs to be wired in order to use that. It basically is suppose converts 2 110 volt 15 amp outlets to 1 30 amp RV outlet. The correct wiring has something to do with the metal tab between the plugs on the regular 110 outlets Find out which way your outlets needs to be wired before you try that adapter. It's possible for that adapter to put out 220volts and that will fry things in your trailer. PM the professor or MrWizard for clarification please.

Rick

I don't think the adapter will put out 240 volts, but on some generators it will short the opposite legs of the generator.

I have an old Coleman generator that has both 240 and 120v outlets. The two 120v outlets have opposite legs of the genhead going to the line (hot) sides of the 120v sockets. If I were to plug in the adapter mentioned, it would effectively short the 240 output of the generator.

The reason I know this? I had to use this generator as emergency power after hurricane Fran in 1996. I could not find a 240v plug anywhere in Raleigh, every place was sold out. So, I discovered the two 120v outlets were 180 degrees out of phase, and made an adapter that used two 120v plugs going to a 240v socket. I was able to run my water pump!! 🙂

You can easily check this by measuring the voltage at the 120v sockets. If you stick one probe in the line side of one socket, and the other probe in the line side of the other socket, you should either measure very close to 0v, or 240v. If you get 0v, the adapter will work. If 240v, no way.

Bob R.

[bobandcat]

Nothing to add. After going back a few posts, what I mentioned was already covered.

[MrWizard]

Wally_Gator wrote:
Mr. Wizzard...

Please explain... Plugged into the normal 3 prong outlet. A/C runs fine, although on a smallish connector for that kind of juice.
Using the 4 prong dogbone to 30 Amp RV connector... I checked with my multimeter
for 120 across the two blade sockets before hooking up my RV. It showed 119 volts on the A/C setting. When I plugged in the RV and turned on the A/C, it would not run. One outlet does and one does not... The 15 amp outlet does work and the 30 does not.....
Can you shed any light on this? Any help is appreciated.

Thank you

Walter

this sounds like a loose or bad connection on the inside of the control panel

either with red/brwn connection or the other pair, a bad connection would mean you can't get power from one of the windings

it could be in the switch.. turn everything off, flip the switch back and forth between the 240/120 mode several times,

then put it back in the 120 mode and try the 30 amp socket again

if that doesn't work you may need to open the panel and check the wiring connections

[Oldfordman]

BORoarke wrote:
Have a few questions, hope you guys can help me out.

Extension cords:
Just purchased the little yellow generator. It's awesome. Picked it up at AutoZone for around $280 after tax. Not a bad price at all! We haven't used it with the trailer yet since its up on the top of a 7,000 foot mtn on the back side of Zion where we keep it parked during the sprint/summer. We will be using the champ to run our 13,500 A/C unit and the microwave. We plan on buying a 30amp extension cord. Could someone please help me understand what kind of power loss we can expect by connecting a 50 ft 30amp extension cord to our RV cord that came with the RV (I think its probably 15 to 20 ft)? Will we drop a lot of power from the length? What is the rule of thumb for loss/length.

Also, about the fan mod I've read about where you remove the fan from the generator and add the RTV. Does anyone have pictures of exactly where we put the RTV or explain it? I have it taken apart but want to make sure I put it in the right place and don't end up joining anything that is not supposed to be joined. I am brand new to generators so please bare with these basic questions.

Also, does anyone have any good links to websites where I can learn all about watts, volts, amps etc?? I'm pretty green when it comes to this topic and would like to learn what I can.


Thanks in advance for any and all help!
Bryan

Don't forget to include the length of the pigtail that is permanently installed on the trailer. On mine it is 15' long. I have a #10 awg extension with 30 amp connections on both ends (no adapters). The extension is 40' and with the trailer cord I have a total of 55'. Since my generator is set for a full 120 volts, I have 115-117 volts in the trailer when the A/C is running. Dips slightly when the A/C starts but is right back up as soon as the fan/compressor are running.

[racefan1965]

well it is the right type of adapter but only for certain generators. The professor and mrwizard can tell you which way your generator needs to be wired in order to use that. It basically is suppose converts 2 110 volt 15 amp outlets to 1 30 amp RV outlet. The correct wiring has something to do with the metal tab between the plugs on the regular 110 outlets Find out which way your outlets needs to be wired before you try that adapter. It's possible for that adapter to put out 220volts and that will fry things in your trailer. PM the professor or MrWizard for clarification please.

Rick

[yerlizard]

John, actually I haven't popped a breaker yet, the generator cuts out than comes back on in about 10 seconds. this is after loading up over 15 amps, on a single outlet, I can take the grinder that put me over the limit and plug it in to the other outlet and it runs fine so you get 13.5 amps on each outlet.
I was kind of hoping to get full amperage out of one outlet for running a power saw. 18amp start up. I really like this generator, I was thinking of getting one of those 1.2kw 2 cycle jobs to keep in my work truck. Wildfire is the brand.

Is this the right type of adapter for an rv?

[professor95]

BORoarke wrote:
We will be using the champ to run our 13,500 A/C unit and the microwave. We plan on buying a 30amp extension cord. Could someone please help me understand what kind of power loss we can expect by connecting a 50 ft 30amp extension cord to our RV cord that came with the RV (I think its probably 15 to 20 ft)? Will we drop a lot of power from the length? What is the rule of thumb for loss/length.

#10 copper has a resistance of 1.02 ohms per 1,000 feet. You are considering a length of 70 feet. The resistance for 70 feet will be .0714 ohms.

Using "Ohm's Law" (voltage = current in amperes x resistance in ohms) we will assume 30 ampres x .0714 ohms. The voltage drop will be slightly over 2 volts (2.142). The resistance actually converts the electrical energy to heat in the cable.

The maximum recommended length of #10 cable at a 30 amp load (120 volts) is 38 feet.

Keep in mind you WILL NOT be consistently pulling 30 amps. IMPO, you will be OK with 70 feet total. Just don't exceed that length to be safe.

Also, keep in mind that at 7,000 feet you will not be able to pull full current from the generator. Their ratings are at sea level. Your engine will not produce full power at that elevation. You should have enough Horse Power to run the AC, but I would be surprised if you could power both the AC and microwave at the same time.

As far as my numbers are concerned, I suggest you try to pick up "The Pocket Reference" by Thomas J. Glover, Sequoia Publishing, http://www.sequoiapublishing.com

The cost is about $10 and it will give you more information on electrical, lumber, plumbing, etc. than you will ever need. You might find one at Lowe's or Home Depot. It is a little black book.

[BORoarke]

Have a few questions, hope you guys can help me out.

Extension cords:
Just purchased the little yellow generator. It's awesome. Picked it up at AutoZone for around $280 after tax. Not a bad price at all! We haven't used it with the trailer yet since its up on the top of a 7,000 foot mtn on the back side of Zion where we keep it parked during the sprint/summer. We will be using the champ to run our 13,500 A/C unit and the microwave. We plan on buying a 30amp extension cord. Could someone please help me understand what kind of power loss we can expect by connecting a 50 ft 30amp extension cord to our RV cord that came with the RV (I think its probably 15 to 20 ft)? Will we drop a lot of power from the length? What is the rule of thumb for loss/length.

Also, about the fan mod I've read about where you remove the fan from the generator and add the RTV. Does anyone have pictures of exactly where we put the RTV or explain it? I have it taken apart but want to make sure I put it in the right place and don't end up joining anything that is not supposed to be joined. I am brand new to generators so please bare with these basic questions.

Also, does anyone have any good links to websites where I can learn all about watts, volts, amps etc?? I'm pretty green when it comes to this topic and would like to learn what I can.


Thanks in advance for any and all help!
Bryan

[Wally_Gator]

Mr. Wizzard...

Please explain... Plugged into the normal 3 prong outlet. A/C runs fine, although on a smallish connector for that kind of juice.
Using the 4 prong dogbone to 30 Amp RV connector... I checked with my multimeter
for 120 across the two blade sockets before hooking up my RV. It showed 119 volts on the A/C setting. When I plugged in the RV and turned on the A/C, it would not run. One outlet does and one does not... The 15 amp outlet does work and the 30 does not.....
Can you shed any light on this? Any help is appreciated.

Thank you

Walter

[MrWizard]

Wally_Gator wrote:

Granted wrote:
This may be the wrong place to ask this question but here goes . We just purchased the Champion 46540 yesterday. It will run the 13500 air conditioner but the air never gets cold. Could that be the generator not producing enough amps or could it be the air conditioner? We leave for two week vacation next Friday and need to get this fixed before we leave.

I have seen something similar but this was on another generator (MaxTools).
I used the NEMA twistlock to a 30 amp dogbone and it would not run the A/C. When I plugged into the regular outlet, A/C would run fine.
My only guess is that the 30 amp twistlock uses both 120v windings and they are 180 degrees out...
If I scan and post the wiring diagram can anyone help me decipher it?

Thank you..

granted.. that sounds like an A/C problem, I have that unit and it will definetly run your A/C

wally.. you may have been under powered

but i guarantee , there is NO such thing as a 240-120 genset being 180 degrees out of phase on ganged duplex outlets

if you put the dogbone on an out let that had the windings split, that would be 240 volts, and you would have smoked the generater when you plugged in the dogbone

they can be series for 240 or paralleled for 120, that cannot be out of phase , if you reverse one set of windings the thing will burn up.

[LVJJJ]

bought one of those 2500 watt (or so) coleman's from Home Depot a while back, used it once and tried to give it away (not sure if I still have it)

[Wally_Gator]

Granted wrote:
This may be the wrong place to ask this question but here goes . We just purchased the Champion 46540 yesterday. It will run the 13500 air conditioner but the air never gets cold. Could that be the generator not producing enough amps or could it be the air conditioner? We leave for two week vacation next Friday and need to get this fixed before we leave.

I have seen something similar but this was on another generator (MaxTools).
I used the NEMA twistlock to a 30 amp dogbone and it would not run the A/C. When I plugged into the regular outlet, A/C would run fine.
My only guess is that the 30 amp twistlock uses both 120v windings and they are 180 degrees out...
If I scan and post the wiring diagram can anyone help me decipher it?

Thank you..

[MrWizard]

yes thats full power to the duplex, the only problem is the breakers are NOT paralleled on the same paired legs of the windings when in the 120v mode, they are in the opposing legs used for the 240v mode

there was a discussion on this a couple of pages back, champion also did that on previous models, its something I dislike, BUT I know of no documented problems,

there is the possibly of one breaker tripping and the circuits still be hot, and NOT dead.. so if you have any power problems shut it down before checking the breakers.. but yes you can full 25 amp power from the duplex use a double dogbone adapter to RV plug, to avoid overheating one half of the duplex