3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[joelabq]

Bobandcat's ideas for extending the exhaust will help. I'm going to start playing with that in the next couple of days.

Joel

[regal5575]

joelabq wrote:

Katdaddy wrote:
Ok folks I need opinions from those of you who are much smarter than me. I have a wild notion for an enclosure to help with the noise. I was wondering if an enclosure with a chimney built into the top would be feasible? I hit on this while tending a fire in my fireplace at home. If I open a window while the fireplace is lit a considerable breeze comes through the open window. So my idea/question is; if a chimney is built into top of enclosure and a gap is left at the bottom will the chimney draw sufficient, if any air through the gap at the bottom to help it stay cool? Also for consideration is whether or not the gap will allow too much sound to escape busting the whole idea? I look forward to hearing your thoughts on this.

I think there is way to much heat load for convection to work while maintaining sound abatement. The enclosure I'm working on I've noticed a large increase in sound if I increase the gap at the bottom. I get around 3dbA from just 3/4" rise on either side.

With a ~ 5000 CFM 12v fan running, I can keep the temp probe near the muffler (touching the Gen head) around 170F (with no gap at the bottom of the box. With a 3/4" gap, I keep it around 134F. With no fan and a gap, I hit 196F at the same spot, and if I take away the gap I noticed no real difference in temperature. I tested all these yesterday eve @ around 50F last night, so I am sure these will climb some in higher ambient. Now, Mind you this is with a baffed vent for th fan on top, which does keep "line of sight" out of the picture. I don't believe I could obtain as great of noise control without that, and I think a "chimney" would let a ton of noise out - only way I could see would be a tall/large/bulkly chimney that would make for difficulty in transport. With that said, if it can be done, I would love to see it.

On a side note:

So far with a temp probe on the cylinder head, normal temps around around 120-125F no load. With the enclosure/fan/and circulation using a gap at the bottom, 137F. I honestly thing heat increase in the enclosure isn't going to effect the engine all that much, even without a gap and no fan running the temps seems to peak out around 160F at the head. I am more concerned about the generator/wiring. I am really thinking of moving the muffler out of the box. Likewise, I think the Gap at the bottom idea lacks alot of the sound control for my taste. I need to figure out a better solution.

I think you're on the right track with your thoughts of moving the muffler outside the box.
Also, in all the research I've done on the internet on noise abatement the one thing I keep seeing over and over is "Sound doesn't like to travel around corners but air does."
Good luck,
JerryK

[dougx75]

Just my two bits....... I had a friend who bought one of these it ran 10 hours and blew the generator. It was real pretty watching it blow sparks out the generator end. He never did find any parts or info on it.

[joelabq]

Katdaddy wrote:
Ok folks I need opinions from those of you who are much smarter than me. I have a wild notion for an enclosure to help with the noise. I was wondering if an enclosure with a chimney built into the top would be feasible? I hit on this while tending a fire in my fireplace at home. If I open a window while the fireplace is lit a considerable breeze comes through the open window. So my idea/question is; if a chimney is built into top of enclosure and a gap is left at the bottom will the chimney draw sufficient, if any air through the gap at the bottom to help it stay cool? Also for consideration is whether or not the gap will allow too much sound to escape busting the whole idea? I look forward to hearing your thoughts on this.

I think there is way to much heat load for convection to work while maintaining sound abatement. The enclosure I'm working on I've noticed a large increase in sound if I increase the gap at the bottom. I get around 3dbA from just 3/4" rise on either side.

With a ~ 5000 CFM 12v fan running, I can keep the temp probe near the muffler (touching the Gen head) around 170F (with no gap at the bottom of the box. With a 3/4" gap, I keep it around 134F. With no fan and a gap, I hit 196F at the same spot, and if I take away the gap I noticed no real difference in temperature. I tested all these yesterday eve @ around 50F last night, so I am sure these will climb some in higher ambient. Now, Mind you this is with a baffed vent for th fan on top, which does keep "line of sight" out of the picture. I don't believe I could obtain as great of noise control without that, and I think a "chimney" would let a ton of noise out - only way I could see would be a tall/large/bulkly chimney that would make for difficulty in transport. With that said, if it can be done, I would love to see it.

On a side note:

So far with a temp probe on the cylinder head, normal temps around around 120-125F no load. With the enclosure/fan/and circulation using a gap at the bottom, 137F. I honestly thing heat increase in the enclosure isn't going to effect the engine all that much, even without a gap and no fan running the temps seems to peak out around 160F at the head. I am more concerned about the generator/wiring. I am really thinking of moving the muffler out of the box. Likewise, I think the Gap at the bottom idea lacks alot of the sound control for my taste. I need to figure out a better solution.

[Katdaddy]

Ok folks I need opinions from those of you who are much smarter than me. I have a wild notion for an enclosure to help with the noise. I was wondering if an enclosure with a chimney built into the top would be feasible? I hit on this while tending a fire in my fireplace at home. If I open a window while the fireplace is lit a considerable breeze comes through the open window. So my idea/question is; if a chimney is built into top of enclosure and a gap is left at the bottom will the chimney draw sufficient, if any air through the gap at the bottom to help it stay cool? Also for consideration is whether or not the gap will allow too much sound to escape busting the whole idea? I look forward to hearing your thoughts on this.

[MrWizard]

well my generator sits with gas year round, I also use it year round,

[regal5575]

tonyclifton wrote:
Howdy again folks!

I have fired up the C46540 twice now. Tonight I made sure my "RV plug into a duplex box via 10/3 SO cable" pigtail worked, which it did. After powering up a few things I shut off the gas supply to run the carb empty. I did this since I don't know how long until I run it again. I do have fuel stabilizer in it but still thought this was a good idea.

Is it OK on the engine? The engine ran a bit, then began like a full minute of bogging down and recovering. Just seemed to go on too long. Made me wonder if it was more detrimental than letting the gas stay in the carbs. I just didn't want it to dry out and gum things up.

Tony,
I know I'm going to start a storm but here goes, 28 years ago I bought an 8hp Ariens Snowblower and for the first 5 years I would shut off the fuel line and let it use the gas in the carb and stall out when it was gone. And at the end of the season I would do the same thing and drain the fuel tank. Yet each fall I would have to take the carb apart and clean the float bowl and jets to get the varnish off, otherwise the engine would speedup and slowdown under load. At some point I decided it was useless to drain the carb after each use and at the end of the season, so instead for the last 23 years I just put Stabil in the gas tank, leave the shutoff valve open and let it sit during the off season with a fairly full fuel tank. And I am glad to report that I only need to clean the carb every 7 or 8 years now.
My theory is that since the carb bowl and float, etc. are kept wet (with gasoline) there are no surfaces for the gasoline to dry out on or form varnish on. I think the Stabil helps too.
I also do the same with my lawnmower.
Jerry
PS. For the 28 year old $50 K-mart Ryan weedwacker, I just leave it hanging on the wall of the garage year around.(with the gas/oil mix in the fuel tank)

[wabsage]

Just picked up a Champion RV generator at my local Checker Auto Parts store. Based on the prices that others have been reporting it seemed like a great bargin at $299, but I also had a 15% off coupon that I used, final price was $254 + tax. Needless to say I'm very happy with the price, too bad it's so dang cold in the garage tonight or I'd be out there getting it started. I'm really curious to hear how loud it is.

I had also been looking at the UST 3500 generator that Pep Boys sells, it was a little cheaper ($269 with a $40 mail in rebate). But the stories that have been told on this thread about Champion's customer / warranty service sold me on it. Also having the RV socket is another big selling factor for me as I'll be using it primarily with our trailer.

Thanks to all of you that have been writing about these Champion generators! Before I came across this thread I thought the Chinese generators were junk and I was ready to buy a used Coleman 8HP generator for $250, you all saved me from a noisy mistake.

[professor95]

Elvis-N-Amy in Texas wrote:
All;

I need a bit of assistance here.

After the ice storm we suffered last week; I picked up a "GG3500" Genset from Pep Boys. It is badged as a "UST 3500 watt"

I recently posted the following:

Other major manufacturers of these small generators are:

Shanghai Chenchang (UST, Contractor, and many 1,000 watt 2 cycle units)
Taizhou Zhongshan (Direct sales in small quanities to most any buyer Big Lots, etc.)
Fuzhou Hauccen(Power Pro)
Jiangsa Jiangdong (Allpower, early ELM3000, Wildfire, Harbor Freight)

The UST is almost an exact feature-for-feature copy of the units made by Jiangdong (i.e. Early ELM3000).

It does not use an AVR. The capacitor serves as a crude but effective voltage regulator in the exciter winding. There will be more noise on the AC wave from this type of unit than those with a solid state AVR. This usually only has an impact on synchronous devices that use line frequency as a clock (microwaves for example) and older ferroresonate converters. Otherwise, equipment in your RV should power from the UST just fine.

Others on the forum who have purchased the unit report that there is no problem running a 13.5K BTU AC.

Like my early ELM3000, tech support has pretty well disappeared. As long as it keeps working, you are in great shape!

[Elvis-N-Amy_in_]

OldFordMan;
MrWizard.
Thank you.
I have a 15A to 20 A adaptor I will try this afternoon. If everything in the RV is "Happy" I will fab in a 20 Amp outlet and then finish it's break in.

If there is information for this genset in this thread; shoot me a link. I do have a scope I can put on the genset to see how "dirty" it is. I assume all non inverter gen sets are a tad noisy

BTW; as was posted earlier; it was only about 1\2 full of oil; and would not start.

As always; a big thanx.

[toprudder]

tonyclifton wrote:
Is it OK on the engine? The engine ran a bit, then began like a full minute of bogging down and recovering. Just seemed to go on too long. Made me wonder if it was more detrimental than letting the gas stay in the carbs. I just didn't want it to dry out and gum things up.

I do exactly what you describe, but when the engine starts to falter I will gradually close the choke to keep the engine running as smooth as possible. Eventually the choke will be closed almost completely and the engine will shutdown abruptly. I believe this helps to suck as much gas out of the carb bowl as possible.

[MrWizard]

you have full power on for 120 volts, you can use a dual pigtail into an RV socket to spread the load and, over the duplex or you can mod the generator and install an RV outlet,

this is the early 'elim' design style and is a brushless generator with out automatic electronic voltage regulation

it will run your A/C unit just fine, it's out put is a bit dirty for say some TV tuners or audio circuits, but it should NOT harm anything

your converter charger will work just find from it, and you can run the TV off the 12volt system

[Oldfordman]

Elvis-N-Amy in Texas wrote:
All;

I need a bit of assistance here.

After the ice storm we suffered last week; I picked up a "GG3500" Genset from Pep Boys. It is badged as a "UST 3500 watt"

LINK

We intend to have it perform double duty; With our 5th wheel; and as AC backup for the home.

The Specs rate is at 26.7 amps at 125V
It has a one dual outlet 15 amp outlet. It does not have a 220 outlet.
It does not have a switch to switch to 220 (As there is no 220 outlet; that would be a good thing to leave off 😉

A quick scan of the wireing diagram and a quick disassembly shows there is only one winding output connected to the duplex outlet. The duplex outlet "bus bars" are bridged (Both outlets are fed from only one generator leg)
The wiring diagram

Shows 2 windings; one I can visibly trace to the duplex outlet and one may connect to a capacitor (I did not completely unbolt it to verify it)

It seems to be relatively quite; but will require sound deadening modifications if I take it camping.

My questions are as follows:

Any feedback \ experience with this genset?
Anyone successfully powered a 13,500 Coleman RV AC?
Is this actually a "ganged" dual winding or a single winding.
Any other feedback?

As usual; thanks for assistance.

Elvis

Look carefully at the schematic at the Voltmeter. Second Winding is connected in parallel just before the Circuit Breaker. It appears that this is a 120V ONLY genset with full output to the duplex outlet. If so, this outlet could be replaced with a 30 Amp RV outlet and you will have full output at the rated power of the unit. You should have no problem running a 13,500BTU Coleman A/C.


BTW, to answer your question "Is this a ganged dual winding", as I read the diagram, they are wired in "parallel" which is the more conventional way to describe the connection.

[Elvis-N-Amy_in_]

All;

I need a bit of assistance here.

After the ice storm we suffered last week; I picked up a "GG3500" Genset from Pep Boys. It is badged as a "UST 3500 watt"

LINK

We intend to have it perform double duty; With our 5th wheel; and as AC backup for the home.

The Specs rate is at 26.7 amps at 125V
It has a one dual outlet 15 amp outlet. It does not have a 220 outlet.
It does not have a switch to switch to 220 (As there is no 220 outlet; that would be a good thing to leave off 😉

A quick scan of the wireing diagram and a quick disassembly shows there is only one winding output connected to the duplex outlet. The duplex outlet "bus bars" are bridged (Both outlets are fed from only one generator leg)
The wiring diagram

Shows 2 windings; one I can visibly trace to the duplex outlet and one may connect to a capacitor (I did not completely unbolt it to verify it)

It seems to be relatively quite; but will require sound deadening modifications if I take it camping.

My questions are as follows:

Any feedback \ experience with this genset?
Anyone successfully powered a 13,500 Coleman RV AC?
Is this actually a "ganged" dual winding or a single winding.
Any other feedback?

As usual; thanks for assistance.

Elvis

[Oldfordman]

tonyclifton wrote:
Howdy again folks!

I have fired up the C46540 twice now. Tonight I made sure my "RV plug into a duplex box via 10/3 SO cable" pigtail worked, which it did. After powering up a few things I shut off the gas supply to run the carb empty. I did this since I don't know how long until I run it again. I do have fuel stabilizer in it but still thought this was a good idea.

Is it OK on the engine? The engine ran a bit, then began like a full minute of bogging down and recovering. Just seemed to go on too long. Made me wonder if it was more detrimental than letting the gas stay in the carbs. I just didn't want it to dry out and gum things up.

I've done this on "auxilliary" engines like gensets, mowers, chain saws, etc for going on 50 years now. I find that I have less problems with gum and "crud buildup" in carbs. As to the engine "stumbling" when it shuts down, that is no problem. The engine is under far greater stress when running continously at or near full load. I don't even waste time or money with stabilizer although many swear by it. By running my genset once per month I am using and replacing fuel enough that gum formation is not an issue.

On something like a genset, which you want to rely on in case of an emergency, regular maintenance is far more important than filling the tank with gas and stabilizer, and then forgetting it.