3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[alvinc]

presp wrote:
Consider http://www.tinytach.com/tinytach/gasoline.php (hours & rpm) $36.95

The only concern I would have about the tinytach is that it has a NON-replaceable battery that good for 5+ years. Otherwise it combines an hour meter and tach. The tach would be useful for checking frequency. Either 1800 or 3600 rpm should be 60 hz.

[Dark_Green_HD_D]

Hmmm I modded a Champion 3500(as per instructions posted here. Got 119v. at the meter after the mod...BUT in individual test of the windings showed that one was putting out most of the load 86v. to ground the other 33-34v. This unit also has one 20 amp breaker & one 15amp(could these windings be matched to the amp rating for the CBs..one with more cap. than the other?). Plugged it to my 5er & run only the inverter + the 15k AC ...after about 20 minutes the 15amp breaker tripped. I didn't have a amp probe but to me it seems that the 2nd winding may not be pulling it's weight thus overloading the other winding. Now when tested pior to modding, both windings showed 115+v. each. Whats going on here? I'm going to test some more with a amp probe & may even swap CBs & see if the same 15amp breaker trips on the other winding. This is not my gen. The person who owns it had made a adapter for the 220v. plug & tapped only one side for the 110v. draw. I'll check which side it was(15vs. 20amp) I may undo the mod & check it with just the 20amp side & see how this holds up to the camper with the 15k air & inverter on. I'll post my findings.

[sjptak]

ib516,
I'm planning on doing allpraisebob's rewire sometime in the near future, then I will have that toggle. Your owner's manual is much better than mine. 30 pages long, and I had to get to page 20 before it recommended to use 10W30 oil. Did you break it in under load or no?

emptyspaces,
Thanks for the pictures. It does have the 12V and I think I have an hour meter laying around (If I can find it) that I saved from a boat that I scrapped.

[Emptyspaces]

Hourmeter Installation:

Here is an example of installing a hourmeter. This one is on my ELM3000.



A view from behind:



RTV is a good way to secure wiring. Always use the non-corrosive kind.



Just poke around with your Voltmeter for somewhere that stays hot with the correct voltage. This is where I connected my 120VAC Hobbs Model 20001. Those that have 12VDC available would probably find a wider selection of available models. I picked mine up on EBay for $10.
I emailed the company to see if they had more available but have not received a reply. This particular one is rated 108-132VAC and .03 amps.

[ib516]

sjptak wrote:


ib516,
Nope, no toggle. Just a single 120v recepticle and a "AC120/240V" outlet. I plugged the drill in and everything seemed just fine using the 12V outlet.

You learn something new everyday. My 3000w Chinese gen has a 110V/220V toggle. Mine also says to run for 10 hrs to break in, then change oil. Change oil every 30 hrs thereafter.

[AlaTex]

AlaTex wrote:
I received my ELM3000 to day from the distributor via UPS - I met the UPS delivery man at my door (3:15 PM CDT), it was not dropped in my presents. However, the way he was carrying it, he set it down on its side. Using hand trucks I moved it to workshop (raining again). Upon checking outside packaging looking for any damage, I noticed written in approx. 3 inch letters “Referb” - which I understood to mean refurbished.

I purchased a “NEW” generator. I wend back to computer and pulled up the add for the generator I purchased. The add described it as new - 6 times - no where in the add is there any indication of rebuilt, refurbished, etc..

Placed call to distributor 800 number within 45 min. of delivery (5 PM EDT) and reached company - they referred me to someone by the name of Mark, did not answer, but I left message with phone number. Called 800 number again and talked to same person again who said Mark was there and apparently on the phone, so I again left my phone number. I know this is not much time and they are likely closed by now (6:10 PM EDT). However, they require the purchaser to check for and report shipping damage within 3 days of delivery.

Based on the “Referb” on box I do not want to open packaging to inspect genset before discussing with ELIM. If I have to ship back to them all that would be necessary is anew shipping label. Others have reported good customer service with this company. I will keep everyone posted.

Suggestions?

Contacted ELIM today - they wanted me to open package and check gen - they said there would be no problem sending it back, at there cost, and they would send a new one if it did turn out to be a refurbished generator. I really did not want to open the package because I would then have to re3-pack it if there was a problem, however ELIM said they could not confirm from there if new or refurbished. Reluctantly, I open package and found:

1) Packing box had been previously opened.
2) Box was marked “Referb” and also “USED” (which I could not previously see due to packaging).
3) No literature included in box e.g. users manual, etc..
4) Gas tank smelled of gasoline. (Could have been test run at factory)
5) Gas line not connected to carburetor.
6) Circuit breakers (2) were bent approx 45 degrees to the side - not useable.
7) Serial Number on motor was not same as the ones on shipping label and box.
8) No attempt to operate was made - only brief visual inspection was made.

Called ELIM back today with no hesitation and no problems ELIM said they would contact UPS for pickup and when 1st generator was received, would send new ELM3000. They called be back a few hours later to say they had made the arangements with UPS and UPS would pickup tomorrow. They also had already contacted warehouse and requested a new one to be sent to me right away.

They (ELIM Inc.) were very easy to work with over the phone.

Generator is now re-packed and ready for UPS pickup tomorrow. Hopefully ELIM will send a new UPS tracking number on the 2nd Gen. If they follow through as they described, I will be happy. If not I will advise Forum.

[sjptak]

presp wrote:

"Consider http://www.tinytach.com/tinytach/gasoline.php (hours & rpm) $36.95"

I like that! Thanks for the link!!!!

[sjptak]

allpraisebob,
I have printed out you rewire and plan to implement it soon. Thanks for all you input. I am impressed with this thread. It isn't a brand bashing, name calling thread, but has been a great exchange of info and ideas.

I thank everyone for their thoughts on this topic. Prof, Bob, Wiz and all the others, thanks....

[sjptak]

alvinc,
You suggestion seem logical and easy. I will put the hour meter in as suggested. Thanks.....

ib516,
Nope, no toggle. Just a single 120v recepticle and a "AC120/240V" outlet. I plugged the drill in and everything seemed just fine using the 12V outlet.

presp,
Seems like very good advice. I will follow your instructions to the "T". The manual was very nonspecific about any break in. Your plan seens logical.

[presp]

alvinc wrote:

sjptak wrote:
Can anyone tell me how to wire in an hourmeter?

Quick answer: Buy one rated for AC, mount it, hook it up to the AC with it's own fuse before the circuit breaker. The AC drives a little motor in the hour meter that counts the time. Generator off, the motor doesn't turn.

Hour meters at Grainger.com

-or-

Consider http://www.tinytach.com/tinytach/gasoline.php (hours & rpm) $36.95

[allpraisebob]

ib516 wrote:

sjptak wrote:
I went to Pep Boys today and gat the PowerPro 3500.
...
One other thing. Not being familiar with generators, when I start it, it says 230V on the voltmeter. I was a bit apprehensive about plugging in a 120V power drill...

Should be a toggle switch to go from 220V to 110V. Don't plug your drill in while the gen is putting out 220V.

There's no toggle switch on the PP3500, unless you install one per my modification posted here.

That said, the voltmeter will always read ~240V in a stock PP3500 unless one or both of the generator windings goes open.

Have no fear that you can plug a 120V device into the 120V outlet without first having to "throw a switch" on the generator - it would be an absolute liability nightmare for the manufacture and/or importer otherwise!

[presp]

sjptak wrote:
... Is there anything I should know for "Break In" or is it pretty much "plug and play"?

FWIW- Since my generator (Nikota 3500) was primarily purchased for emergency backup power,
usually run at near maximum load, I felt a decent break-in would help lengthen its lifespan.
(the oiling 'system' in these engines is as primitive as it gets)

This consisted of running a full tank of gas thru it, at mostly no-load, with the original
'fish-oil' crankcase lubricant. (it ran for about 12hrs before running out of gas)
I drained the crankcase while it was still hot so the particles did not settle out.
(oil was rather silvery looking with fine metal particles, i.e. good for break-in)

Refilled the crankcase with Mobil 1 10w-30(.6 qt). Ran it for about an hour to thoroughly
flush out the old fish-oil.
Again, drained it while hot (of course, much less metal in oil this time)

Final refill; again with Mobil 1 10w-30 and a 10 minute run to distribute the fresh oil.
Let it run out of gas by turning the fuel valve off (to empty the carb & fuel line).

Added about 1oz of STABIL fuel preservative (@auto parts store) to a full tank.
(if it sits for many months before useage the fuel will be in better condition)

Last, I gently pull the starter rope thru until resistance (compression) is felt.
This makes sure both valves (inlet & exhaust) are closed to seal off the ports.

The above will help ensure that when I need it I only have to turn on the fuel valve,
pull it thru once with the choke on, then one good pull with the choke off and it runs.
(when it's dark, cold, and windy -the easiest/quickest way to start it is needed)

Wiring wise, this Nikota 3500 just has two separate 120v outlets -each run from its own coil-
giving a max of about 15a per receptacle (NEMA 5-15R).
Both are on the same phase so they are paralled when I need to get more than 15a current
and still stay within the NEMA 5-15 plug amperage limit of 15amps.
(a clip-on ampmeter helps. e.g. http://www.harborfreight.com Item# 42397 $14.99)

HTH -Pres

[ib516]

sjptak wrote:
I went to Pep Boys today and gat the PowerPro 3500. Can anyone tell me how to wire in an hourmeter? Not the quietest genset, but acceptable, since I will be using it primarily for house backup and not camping (wish I could convince myself to part with $$$$$ for the Honda or Yamaha).

Is there anything I should know for "Break In" or is it pretty much "plug and play"?

One other thing. Not being familiar with generators, when I start it, it says 230V on the voltmeter. I was a bit apprehensive about plugging in a 120V power drill. Is that what it should read? I'll play with plugging more things in after I hear from you more experienced guys.

BIG thanks to Prof, Wiz, Bob and all the others who helped me make my decision. This was/is the most informative thread I have seen. No product bashing, personal attacks or arguments. Wish the other threads could be this informative. Thanks guys....

Should be a toggle switch to go from 220V to 110V. Don't plug your drill in while the gen is putting out 220V.

[alvinc]

sjptak wrote:
Can anyone tell me how to wire in an hourmeter?

Quick answer: Buy one rated for AC, mount it, hook it up to the AC with it's own fuse before the circuit breaker. The AC drives a little motor in the hour meter that counts the time. Generator off, the motor doesn't turn.

Hour meters at Grainger.com

[sidst]

sjptak wrote:
I went to Pep Boys today and gat the PowerPro 3500. Can anyone tell me how to wire in an hourmeter? Not the quietest genset, but acceptable, since I will be using it primarily for house backup and not camping (wish I could convince myself to part with $$$$$ for the Honda or Yamaha).

Is there anything I should know for "Break In" or is it pretty much "plug and play"?

One other thing. Not being familiar with generators, when I start it, it says 230V on the voltmeter. I was a bit apprehensive about plugging in a 120V power drill. Is that what it should read? I'll play with plugging more things in after I hear from you more experienced guys.

BIG thanks to Prof, Wiz, Bob and all the others who helped me make my decision. This was/is the most informative thread I have seen. No product bashing, personal attacks or arguments. Wish the other threads could be this informative. Thanks guys....