3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[Curly2001]

I will take a look at the meter. I was letting mine run under some load and then no load for a while thinking of letting things get broken in. I ran a shop vac and a week whacker on mine for a while. The noise dropped for a second and then evened out still very quiet for that size generator. No performance loss on anything I ran. I then hooked up the TT A/C unit with the other things running and it started without tripping the breaker. Not too bad. Stay tuned...more later.
Thanks prof.....Curly

[MrWizard]

carnut

you had 3000 watts fo pure resistive load, ie heavy current, perhaps it simply needs the govenor/throttle adjusted a little, or maybe the combined load was actually more than the calculated load..

heating coils / nickel resistive heating wire has to be cut the exact lenght needed for a specfic load/heat and i don't think factory asembly lines for this type of product are going to be in the 1% range..

[guy48065]

This recepticle accepted all the polarized cords I tried. It kinda looks like BOTH slots are wide--my 2-prong polarized plugs would go in either way. Duh! Not very useful then , is it?!

CarNut wrote:
The Good, the bad, and the ugly.

110 would not accept polarized plug but the HD 3 into 1 short extension I had would...the polarized plug issue has been noted on several other Chinese gensets.

[guy48065]

I visited this thread at lunch and saw the mention of the Power Pro showing up at Pep Boys...so I called my local one. Hurray! THey got 12 in today. I stopped on the way home, looked one over and bought it on the spot. Once home with it I added oil & gas & started it up (1st pull). Very quiet. I plugged in 2 space heaters totalling either 2700 or 3000 watts. At 2700 it was putting out 110V on my meter. Switched to 3000W total & voltage stayed for a few seconds until the breaker on my power strip popped. I'll play more soon but I wanted to make sure the genset breakers didn't trip with 3000W output. The manual shows "10A" in the parts list but I think they're actually 16A each.

Also the Power Pro DOES have brushes inside--but only 2 small ones. Either they're for the 12VDC output or the field winding. Either way it's a low-current circuit that should last a looong time. (If I understand a past post from the Professor ELM3000L that is coming to replace the ELM3000 also has this brush set)

[CarNut]

The Good, the bad, and the ugly.

The good: I picked up a PowerPro 3500 at Pep Boys today. They honored my raincheck from the ELM3000 which they told me was not coming back (This was a courtesy of this particular store, based on charity from my previous experience [listed back in the pg 20's]; I don't think they have to honor the raincheck at other stores). They called and told me they had 2 new brands of generators come in. One had a 5.5hp engine and was smaller (172cc vs. 196cc in PowerPro). I took the PowerPro by Wen. I think same unit as Curly. Brought it home and started on first pull:). It is red; has a panel switch w/ engine on/off switch, 12V terminals, a circuit breaker, a voltage meter (up to 300V), a 110V socket, and 240V 4-prong socket. 110 would not accept polarized plug but the HD 3 into 1 short extension I had would...the polarized plug issue has been noted on several other Chinese gensets.

I let it run for a couple of minutes then plugged in a 500 work-light. Then I decided to add 1500 watt electric room heater (forced air). Then I added a 1000W parabolic heater to the load. Seemed to run good with the load on it. I let it run about 45 minutes tonight.

Noise seemed a little louder than I would have liked, but definately quieter than most of my B&S motor experience. Noise seemed on par w/ my 6HP Craftsman B&S lawnmower (which is quieter than most lawnmowers in my neighbor hood). I would say IMHO it is too loud to run at a campsite for long periods. I think I am more sensitive about noise now that I am older (just turned 40). But I still want a big exhaust for my Duramax. I diverge... I only let it run 45 minutes because wife came out and told me our neighbor across street goes to bed early and did not want the noise to keep him awake.

The bad: I noticed when I went to shut down that voltage meter was only reading 205V. I checked at plug w/ mult-meter and found I was only getting 98-100V w/ both heaters and the light on. With one heater it would go up to 109-111V. No-load was about 120V.
Curly: does your voltage drop under load like that?
Prof: any thoughts? I know it has been posted previously that the appliances will not like low voltage for any length of time. And I guess I am assuming that all the current is available in the single plug, since there is only one 110V.

The Ugly: well, sorry to dissappoint, but at this moment it hasn't gotten ugly. Although the noise opinion discussion could get that way. I will say the noise level is fine for what I wanted: a back-up for boondocking that could also be used at home if necessary in case of power outage. Thanks to all the previous posts. I will try to post schematic and maybe some pics this weekend if anyone is interested.

[mavapa]

Hey Al, interesting results. Maybe the Power Pro would do for me, too. At least I think I can find one around here.

[Al_in_Va]

I am turning myself in to the Generator Police. I committed generator abuse and enjoyed it. Hooked the 3000/3500 Power Pro from Pep Boys to the 5th wheel and turned on the 15000 AC. It worked fine. Then I got a cup of water and started the microwave. It pulled the AC and microwave simultaneously. I didnt notice much difference in sound, and the meter moved from maybe 225-230volts to about 220volts (altho I was only pulling from the 110 outlet with a 15amp to 30amp adapter). I wouldnt recommend this as a standard practice, but I had to try it. Cut off the microwave. Then I put the fridge on auto, and it came on running on electric. Left it on for maybe a minute and then cut it off. Seemed to pull it OK. I had the gen in the back of a truck and thought it was noisy when standing right beside it, but went in the camper bedroom which was about 6-7 ft from the gen, and I really didnt notice the gen sound over the running AC fan. So I think it will serve my purpose. I will still work on some way to quiet it some, but I dont think people in other trailers or motorhomes would be bothered by it. I am sure it would aggravate tent campers, tho. Just wanted to report as I saw several of you were interested in the same model. Al in Va.

[rtomcza1]

http://www.kiporgenerators.com/

[rtomcza1]

look into kipor sinemaster generators[url=http://www.kiporgenerators.com/

[Al_in_Va]

Started up the Power Pro 3000/3500 today and am satisfied. I would say it was not too noisy. We were having a rain shower, so I didnt take it out to the camper to see what it would power, but hooked it up to a 5hp shop vac that is supposed to be 10 amps, and I heard it change tone, but not much increase in loudness. I think about as much of the noise is mechanical from the generator or motor as is exhaust noise. I put a larger cardboard box over it briefly and that seemed to reduce the noise level considerably, so it seems some sort of enclosure might quiet it down some more. Maybe somebody will come up with a good plan. When I get to try it with the trailer AC, I will let you know what it will run.

[larrym2]

I would like to get in line and say thanks to the Professor and all of you that have opened and contributed to this great discussion. I to have learned a lot about what I might need. I have followed this discussion when there was only a couple of thousand hits and a little more then 100 replies.
I went early and bought the ELIM3000, made my pig tail as the professor instructed took it to my 27ft Prowler and fired it up and ran everything fine. All I need to do is change my 15amp plugs to 20amp polarity type. Also, I am set now for any of Mother Natures hurricanes this year, if she sends one. Again Thanks to all. Larrym2. (Plant City, Florida. Winter Strawberry Capital).

[Curly2001]

Next time ask to speak to the tech and not a $5.00/hour 20 year old receptionist. She may not know any of the details except how to route the calls. Just a thought to the "informed consumer".
Curly:B

[guy48065]

Just for grins I looked into the Wen connection on these clones that are just now showing up at Pepboys. Nothing at the Wen website
http://www.wentools.com/
So I called. They know nothing about it. I got the usual "they're made at our factory in China"...and direct-imported here exclusively to Pepboys. When I told her I wasn't interested in a generator made in a Wen factory but was instead looking for one of the JD3000 clones (for parts & support availability) she stammered that she didn't really know where it was made! LOL
They just hate informed consumers!

[mavapa]

Youth4him, Jon at Wildfire responded to me (you might have missed my post a while back) that the Wildfire 3000 has 15-amp breakers, so he thought the entire 3000W was not available from one outlet. As I said in my post, I am not sure that answers the question fully, but maybe you can find out once you get yours. Here's hoping.

[youth4him]

Is there any feasible way to add an aftermarket throttle to a genset? Dumb question, and not sure how the voltage would handle it, but just curious...