3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[professor95]

Trimsters wrote:
Sorry. It's the CSA model C46535.
Bob

CSA indicates the Canadian Standards model. The schematic you posted is for the old C46535-2006 which is no longer made. The two are similar with the major difference being the CSA model had different size circuit breakers.

I assume you have the the obsolete USA model that matches the wiring diagram you posted.

Champion's product web site for generators can be found
here.

You will want to change the wiring to match what you find on the C46540. This is the wiring diagram.

You do not have to change the outlets downstream of the switch unless you want to.

The critical part is the voltage selector switch. It must be a break before make type switch. You should order the switch from CPE parts. The part number is: STO2FD-1151201M Voltage Selector Switch. You will also need to replace the 20 amp circuit breaker on your unit with a matching 15 amp breaker for your model.

Ill be glad to help you with any questions once you get the parts. Call Champion at 888-696-0668.

[Gulfcoast]

Mine started on the very first pull... brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr smile

[TeamSlacker]

Gulfcoast wrote:
Just passing along free info...

Champion 3500-watt generators at Cabela's with a FREE wheel kit... $279.99

Offer expires 12/31/09

Picked one up last night, with coupon worked out to about $200.
Got it unboxed and put together tonight, second pull, away it went... brrrrrrrrrrr

[Trimsters]

Sorry. It's the CSA model C46535. Here's the wiring diagram.


Bob

[MrWizard]

120 & 240 at the same time ?

i thought they were 120 OR 240, the installed switch is NOT a meter switch, it is a power switch, it does switch the windings

I don't remember a Champion, that doesn't use both windings for 120v

the pre-rv ready, use a 120/240 twist lock that has full 28 amps of 120v on the twist lock when switched to 120, just use an RV adapter plug/dogbone to convert to a RV 30 amp outlet

don't recall IF CPE made one where the 120v duplex was split across the the (2) windings, in that situation a permanent rewire to 120v only works out best for full power on the DUPLEX outlet, but its a safer option to run the RV from a twist lock adapter, more metal, better connection less heat at the plug

[professor95]

Trimsters wrote:
I would like to put in a 3 way switch to change the output where both coils are combined and get the max. 120v output possible for use with the RV, but be able to switch it back so I can power the house in emergencies.

Big thanks.

Bob & Lisa

I need to know what your generator's model number is before I can help you.

NOT having a faint heart is good - as long as you don't make mistakes with electrical circuits. When you do, all the smoke comes out. You will never get it all back in. We all know the secret ingredient that keeps electrical devices working is smoke.

[Trimsters]

Ok, wow... info overload on this thread.
I have a Champion, 120v and 240v and 12v. outputs. I would like to put in a 3 way switch to change the output where both coils are combined and get the max. 120v output possible for use with the RV, but be able to switch it back so I can power the house in emergencies. I do NOT have a faint heart... so this task is not intimidating. I just need to know what wires where? how to trace the wires and which switch I should get?

Big thanks.

Bob & Lisa

[Gulfcoast]

Just passing along free info...

Champion 3500-watt generators at Cabela's with a FREE wheel kit... $279.99

Offer expires 12/31/09

[professor95]

Old & Slow wrote:
Prof,

Your idea of bringing along the golf cart starts the wheels turning. My golf cart has 6x8volt batts and with a gen could be a REAL power plant. It's always parked near the MH. So with a gen, WOW. Planed on adding a gen so I would never be stranded around the lake. The old legs are more than SLOW. Is it true the gen inverters produce 48 volts DC to the module?
Floyd

You got the old brain tickin', Floyd. All you need is a 48 volt or 24 volt input inverter and you have an awesome battery bank for power. Now, if you have a 36 volt cart with six volt batteries rather than 8 volt batteries you can use a standard 12 volt input inverter or tap to six volt batteries at a time for your 12 VDC power to the camper.

If you don't need to ride the GC around, you have a motorized, easily moveable battery bank to draw from!

As for the inverter gens producing 48 VDC to the module -- I really do not know the exact voltage, but that sounds appropriate. They use a 3 phase alternator and I "think" the AC to DC components are part of the module, not external. In any event, it would be best to recharge the GC batteries from the 3 stage regulated GC charger plugged into 120 volts even though some efficiency is lost in the power conversion process by the GC power transformer.

The output from the alternator on the Volvo is something like 300 amps compared to about 120 on a conventional single alternator PU. The Volvo has 4 group 29 batteries in parallel for starting and power. Quite a reserve and battery charging source built right in.

[professor95]

geshields wrote:
Just got our toy hauler and am looking at getting a generator for it. Our toy hauler is a MXT300. I would like the generator to be able to power the air conditioning and all lights, etc. over the summer.

Is there a large difference in real output between the unit from Tractor Supply(3500/4000W)(no wheels) and Lowes(3000/3500W)(has wheels)? I am leaning towards the one from Lowes for the convenience of having wheels but do not want it to underperform as far as powering the A/C, etc. in the hot Texas summers. I do not care if the microwave and the A/C cannot be ran at the same time...

The wattage output will be the same regardless of what the factory labels show. What you find on the 120 volt only model is a significantly lower amount of THD, or Total Harmonic Distortion. As a result, it can be said that the power from the 120 volt only models is "cleaner". But, that said, the waveform and distortion present in either model is not significant enough to cause problems with any equipment in your RV -- including computers, which are often cited as needing "clean" power (a myth -- unless you still us a Commodore 64).

And Brad..... Mauve grows on you.. (like mold and moss). But I will get used to it because the air ride seats are COMFORTABLE as heck.

[blkfe]

professor95 wrote:

Wgeorge11 wrote:
I'd keep one camera pointed up if you're planning on using that shelter. Congratulations!

The photo is deceiving. The truck is forward, going up a slope. Therefore it looks much taller than the fiver. Both the fifth wheel and the truck are the same height (13'3"). The RV port is 15 feet at the center, 12 at the sides. The Volvo will drive through. In fact, if the weather stays this nasty I plan on putting it under the RV port and putting some tarps up on the sides so I can do some electrical work. The turn signal and tail lights on the Volvo are separate, the fiver combined. In 2004 Volvo started controlling the truck lighting from a computer. Actually pretty cool because when a light is out the DID (Driver Information Display) immediately tells you which light to replace. Anyway, the Hoppy converter doesn't work with the Volvo lighting computer so I have to build one using Bosch mechanical relays that have a coil. The coil provides enough resistance for the computer to "think" it is a lamp filament. It is snowing! So, I built up the module this afternoon. Now I get to install it and hope it works.

The Volvo was 1/2 full of fuel when I picked it up. That's 150 gallons. Yes, it holds 300 gallons and will take a second mortgage to fill it up. The DID has a fuel mileage function and a really neat bar graph showing where the economy range is. The 200 miles from Roanoke to home has a lot of steep inclines to pull. I think I can actually improve on the mileage on level Interstate.

As far as the APU goes I am thinking at this point that I may take the Champion Chinese genny out of the 5th wheel and mount it on the Volvo along with a large bank of AGM batteries weighing about 600#. This would get some weight off the front camper jacks. Obviously, there is plenty of room on the back of the Volvo for generators, golf carts, batteries, tool cabinets and maybe even a small motorcycle. I also have a huge space under the passenger side lower fairing for batteries or even holding tanks if I decide to put a small sink in the sleeper area (which I probably will do).

My only gripe is the color of the interior - mauve. But, I guess I can live with that since it is clean and in good condition. It is really no different than driving a big motor home or bus.

Hey Randy....way cool... Maybe this isn't the correct thread but it would be awesome if you would post the mods you do on your Volvo..I would love to see them starting with the seat covers...lol..
Brad

[kausin_komotion]

Cabelas just had them on sale for $279 with wheels.Think it was a one day thing though.

[toprudder]

Were those RV ready, though?

[MrWizard]

Home Depot has carried Champion and autozone, although champions at autozone are getting scarce.

[toprudder]

Gulfcoast wrote:
I see that Tractor Supply has them, anywhere else?

The one I've seen at TS is a 120/240 switchable, with RV 30amp outlet. There is also one being sold at Lowe's, which is 120v only, with a RV 30amp outlet, but also comes with a wheel kit. I caught that one on sale for $329, I think they are normally $359 or so.