3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[gasser9]

Do not forget that flow & pressure are two COMPLETLY different annimals!!!!!!
if you cut back the flow it just takes longer for the pressure to build!!!!!
The best solution would be an adjustable fuel pressure pressure regulator available fronAdvance, Pep Boys, or online at Jegs, Summit, Northern or the like. Be VERY CAREFUL you are buildin a bomb!
Go to lpg it's much safer in this instance.

[mauricedorris]

professor95 wrote:

Reresh my memory. Is your RV a 30 or 50 amp?

On the schematic there are two circuit protectors at the top with no rating. Do you know their value? The one going to the duplex outlet is marked 20 Amps, but the others are not marked.

With the MDF I doubt that you will need the carpet. If you do use it, you can just nail with roofing nails or staple it on. A good glue is 3M High Strength 90. It is in a large spray can and I find it with the rest of the glues in the paint section of Lowe's. 3M 88 also works but the 77 will not hold its bond with carpet in a hot cabinet.

Let me know what power rating your RV along with the unmarked CBs on your Duropower are and I will try to help you on the hookup.

BTW - your fuel line/fuel pump scare me. Honest, while it may "work" it is not safe for the design of the carburetor on your generator engine. It is not a question of "if" it will leak, it is a question of "when". Think about it, is it really worth the risk? I have been know to be wrong, but I am right on more things than wrong things. I believe my caution is one of the right things.

Professor... my rv is 30 amp. Regarding the circuit breakers. One is marked 20A. The other is not marked at all. However, when I trip it, all power to all receptacles is disabled. Does that mean anything? I am attaching a pick of the front panel. Looking at the panel, it would make you assume that the l5-30R port is limited to 20 amps. Its confusing.

I'm hoping that I can get the full 30 amps from the L5-30R receptacle.

Thanks for the tips on the MDF. I''ll try it without the carpet first.

Regarding my fuel line. No need to worry. I am approaching this with as much skepticism as you. But, I took it as a challenge to try to figure out a solution.

Basically, I have been experimenting with diffent ways of controlling the flow to the carburetor with a variety of valves and home-made jets. I am basically choking down the output of an already low 1-4 psi fuel pump. I know I may be increasing psi, but I have the flow pretty much the same as a gravity feed tank.

I am watching, monitoring and testing this very, very carefully. For my generator, i run it several hours at a time with no problems. If/when it appears that its not working, then I will not hesitate to abandon this fuel experiment. But so far, no problems.

I do have the fuel pump powered by the 12v output of the generator. That's working perfectly for me.

[professor95]

mauricedorris wrote:
OK... I am back on my generator project after having to take a month or so to deal with some other projects, including painting, motorcyle engine rebuilds, etc...

(too many projects, too little time)

I am very satisfied with my duropower generator and I have what I believe is a "workable" solution to using the exising fuel line from my RV. When I say "workable", what I mean is that I have setup the generator on my bench, inside my constructed box, and I am supplying fuel from a single fuel line with a fuel pump. My generator ran for 5 straight hours in my testing. I do not plan to set up the return fuel line so long as my solution works.

I am working on sound issues since the chinese generator at 3600 rpm idle, generates more vibration than the Onan. That vibration turns to noise.

I have acquired all necessary stuff to build a new box, which will include a wood frame, mdf panels, fan, sound baffle on top, lined with some dense carpeting that are basically scraps from the local carpet store. I am tempted to try the 2 inch foam panels, but I am not sure how I would mount the carpet to it.

My question today is... I need to wire this generator into my RV. Below is the wiring diagram for the duropower 4500. I am not exactly sure where I am supposed to tap into the power. My old generator was an onan 4K. Can I simply tap into the L5-30r receptacle and hardwire it to the electrical panel in the RV.

this is where my knowledge falls a little short. Any help is appreciated.

Reresh my memory. Is your RV a 30 or 50 amp?

On the schematic there are two circuit protectors at the top with no rating. Do you know their value? The one going to the duplex outlet is marked 20 Amps, but the others are not marked.

With the MDF I doubt that you will need the carpet. If you do use it, you can just nail with roofing nails or staple it on. A good glue is 3M High Strength 90. It is in a large spray can and I find it with the rest of the glues in the paint section of Lowe's. 3M 88 also works but the 77 will not hold its bond with carpet in a hot cabinet.

Let me know what power rating your RV along with the unmarked CBs on your Duropower are and I will try to help you on the hookup.

BTW - your fuel line/fuel pump scare me. Honest, while it may "work" it is not safe for the design of the carburetor on your generator engine. It is not a question of "if" it will leak, it is a question of "when". Think about it, is it really worth the risk? I have been know to be wrong, but I am right on more things than wrong things. I believe my caution is one of the right things.

[JConatser]

subcamper wrote:
I just got an ad in the mail from Tractor Supply. They have the Champion for $299 with a free $50 gift card (mail-in). From the picture, it looks like the RV 3500 watt model.

Steve

It is the RV model. Here's an Internet link to it. Note it's "In stores only" and can't be ordered online. Near the bottom of the page is the mail-in Gift Card link.

[subcamper]

I just got an ad in the mail from Tractor Supply. They have the Champion for $299 with a free $50 gift card (mail-in). From the picture, it looks like the RV 3500 watt model.

Steve

[bradyk]

Yes the Champion is a bit louder and I have one. I also have a Kipor 2000 watt as well from when they first came out. I used it on my old unit that had no air so extra wattage was not important. If I don;t need air and going to a busier campground I will throw in the small one for sound as I can run everything off it but the air. When I am going Boondocking or need air I will take the Champion. I think the biggest thing is the Kipor, Honda's and Yamaha's run in eco mode which makes them idle slower and more quiet. The Champion is pretty much going full tilt all the time. Too the ear the Kipor doesn't sound much quieter when it is all reved up with a full load but if just a small load or charging the batteries you can hardly hear it run.

[mauricedorris]

OK... I am back on my generator project after having to take a month or so to deal with some other projects, including painting, motorcyle engine rebuilds, etc...

(too many projects, too little time)

I am very satisfied with my duropower generator and I have what I believe is a "workable" solution to using the exising fuel line from my RV. When I say "workable", what I mean is that I have setup the generator on my bench, inside my constructed box, and I am supplying fuel from a single fuel line with a fuel pump. My generator ran for 5 straight hours in my testing. I do not plan to set up the return fuel line so long as my solution works.

I am working on sound issues since the chinese generator at 3600 rpm idle, generates more vibration than the Onan. That vibration turns to noise.

I have acquired all necessary stuff to build a new box, which will include a wood frame, mdf panels, fan, sound baffle on top, lined with some dense carpeting that are basically scraps from the local carpet store. I am tempted to try the 2 inch foam panels, but I am not sure how I would mount the carpet to it.

My question today is... I need to wire this generator into my RV. Below is the wiring diagram for the duropower 4500. I am not exactly sure where I am supposed to tap into the power. My old generator was an onan 4K. Can I simply tap into the L5-30r receptacle and hardwire it to the electrical panel in the RV.

this is where my knowledge falls a little short. Any help is appreciated.

[MrWizard]

The generator is un-grounded and it reads approximately 58 volts to ground from both the hot and neutral even when it’s plugged into the RV. Is that okay? I’m thinking it is

NOrmal for an un-bonded portable genset, thats OK, mine show similar results

[Cox89XJ]

Cox89XJ wrote:

professor95 wrote:
Bruce,

What is concerning me about rewiring your generator to parallel windings is the junction the schematic shows between the windings. If this is an "internal" connection then it is really more of a project than anyone but a motor/generator repair shop should accomplish.

Professor
As the old saying goes, “they made a mistake and wired it just like the print” which they did. The windings are connected internally. I removed the generator cover where it exposed the terminal block. Then disconnected the wires and check for continuity. Tracing the wires further they go into the winding. It would have been so easy if they had made the connection on the terminal block. Like I said in an earlier post. I made up a 10-4 cord and have the 220 volt plug wired to a 50 amp receptacle that I can plug the fifth wheel into. The generator came with 12 amp breakers and when the A/C would kick on it would trip that circuit. I replaced the two 12 amps with 15 amp Square D breakers and now the 13,500 btu A/C will run and not trip the breakers. The breaker that feeds the A/C also feeds the microwave. I know I won’t be able to run the micro while the A/C is on. The other side of the circuit feeds the rest of the RV. I just hope the windings on the A/C side of the generator hold up. Once the A/C starts and is running it should be below even 12 amp. I would check it with my amp meter, but the batteries for it are dead. I would like to thank you for your response and your contribution to this thread.
Thank you.
Bruce

Persistence pays off. I decided to tackle the generator winding again and was able to trace the wires where the two windings were joined together. I separated them and rewired the generator for 115 volt only disabling the 220 volt part. Installed a 30 amp RV plug in place of the 220 plug. All works well. One question. The generator is un-grounded and it reads approximately 58 volts to ground from both the hot and neutral even when it’s plugged into the RV. Is that okay? I’m thinking it is. I now have an electric start 4000 watt gen that will run my RV and not burn the windings up on the side that was feeding the A/C. Thanks for yall’s support.

[professor95]

Old & Slow wrote:
Hmmm,

New Champions all over the place. I live not far from pplmotorhomes.com in Houston. At one time they sold the Champion 40008 NOW they sell the new UltraGen by CHAMPION (Blue)that is Electric Start (looks just like the 40008) @ $630.90 plus shipping. Makes the 3500w Electric Start DP3500EC by DuroPower @ 349 and Free Shipping with side and end panels (63 bBA) almost 1/2 price or two-fer one.

That is most likely why Ultra-Fab changed the color to blue :). Now, unsuspecting buyers will lay down the additional $$$ thinking they are getting something different. Not everybody is a knowledgeable as you are about the Chinese Generator market offerings.

Personally, I always thought Ultra Fab was a laundry detergent.

[Old___Slow]

Hmmm,

New Champions all over the place. I live not far from pplmotorhomes.com in Houston. At one time they sold the Champion 40008 NOW they sell the new UltraGen by CHAMPION (Blue)that is Electric Start (looks just like the 40008) @ $630.90 plus shipping. Makes the 3500w Electric Start DP3500EC by DuroPower @ 349 and Free Shipping with side and end panels (63 bBA) almost 1/2 price or two-fer one.

[BobandPatB]

MrWizard wrote:
the professor posted some model numbers in a post recently, with descriptions

It was the Professor's post that prompted me to question the model numbers of Home Depot and others. These model numbers are not shown on the Champion website. I E-mailed Champion and they were familiar with the model that I saw on Home Depot's website, and they answered my question about the RV receptacle.

[MrWizard]

the professor posted some model numbers in a post recently, with descriptions

[Old___Slow]

SonicLogic wrote:

BobandPatB wrote:
Sears has a CHAMPION 3500 WATT model #46511 on their internet site with free shipping for $299, but I don't recognise this model number. The picture isn't clear enough to determine if it has an RV outlet.
Is anyone familiar with this unit?

Home Depot is running the same deal. These are new, old stock Champion generators.

http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10051&productId=100663865&langId=-1&catalogId=10053&ci_src=14110944&ci_sku=100663865&cm_mmc=shopping-_-google-_-D25X-_-100663865

Looks like we are seeing new numbers for Champion here and there. Are they new stock or old? Amazon.com has one that looks like the face of a 40008 but has numbers like Champion 46517 and 534 All look pretty close to the same? Some can not be sold in CA.? And looks like Sears is going into the Generator business! I think I counted 117 online. We should see lot's of new reports and reviews posted on 3000w Chinese Genset(s) Info.

[MrWizard]

that is not an RV plug, that is a Twist clock 120v, some of these came with the 'twist lock to RV' adapter pigtail included in the generator pkg with the tools and manual & wheels