3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[Wgeorge11]

Floyd, we can't fix your cancer, but we can surely generate a lot of energy, hope and well wishes through this group and that little yellow machine. We'll be pulling for you.
George

[Old___Slow]

deshemar wrote:

professor95 wrote:
The DuroPower is a nice little unit. It is almost identical to the ELM3000 I purchased in March of 2005 when this thread began. Both the DuroPower and original ELM3000 are built by a large Chinese plant named JiangDong.

The major mechanical differences between the Champion and JD units are in the way the voltage is regulated and the amount of distortion that appears on the output sine wave. The Champion uses a very well designed solid state voltage regulator with a sense winding. The JD units use a simple AC capacitor. Voltage is much more stable with the Champion AVR and the distortion on the output is somewhere in the range of 4% - pretty low for this class of generator. The Champion does use slip rings and a brush set rather than a brushless design. Initially, I saw this as a negative but now that I have been able to disect and examine both units I believe the brushes will outlast most of the other components.

Another thing to consider is your warranty and after the sale support. JD makes generators for perhaps a hundred or more distributors who sell them under their label (like DuroPower). Champion owns their own manufacturing facility and makes only their own label. Their warrranty and service/parts department are currently very responsive to customer needs and have impressed many on this forum.

If it sounds like I am advertising for Champion - I am not. At least not any more than I would advertise for products from GM, Fleetwood, Camco, Acar, Dometic or a slew of others that I have been blessed to receive good service, support and some value for my dollar from. I think one of the things that these forums do that makes them valuable is allowing contributors to honestly express their experiences with products and problems relevant to our life style.

Professor 95,
thanks for the information - you and Mr. wizard are a great source of information for those of us without the depth of knowledge you both demonstrate. Thanks again - will be looking into the champion based on these comments.
on another note professor, I see by your profile you are here in Mechanicsville - hello neighbor - I live here too. Good to know you are close by.

To all the forums:

This was the post that helped me make the final decision to buy a Chinese made Genset. From this post I have been so blessed in my experience with the Champion C46540. It has exceeded my expectation. From a old man's point of view, in todays world, this is about as good as it gets. I have cancer and needed something special to come my way.

Floyd

[Old___Slow]

Old & Slow wrote:
Wgeorge11 You were such a great help to me in my buying the Champion C46540 and I thank you so much. I only wish I could string words together like you and I would better describe how happy I am with the New Champion, I've had such a unique experience on the journey. You and Mr Wizard are my Champ's.

I'm sorry Professor95 you were also important in my search for the right genset. You do count in the equation of the vast feild of Chinese imported generators.

[Wgeorge11]

The Professor and MrWizard have lectured us time and again about bonding, ground, and grounding. Now this from the mouth of a pro who knew better, but didn't. There's nothing like a ZAP to get your attention. I'm just glad the zinger only jolted the nerves and not the life. Personally, I prefer learning from another's mistake and try not reinventing the wheel or changing the laws governing electricity.

[TKMJ]

MrWizard wrote:
TKMJ. I hope your wife is feeling better

I think you need to get things documented, then decide the legal ramifications after you have time to think things over.

take her to the doctor. get the burns examined and photographed

take the generator to an independent shop and get it examined, talk to your insurance agent and get them to recommend a shop or procedures.

then you can make your phone call which ever way you decide

safety is a VERY BIG thing of mine, the issues of frame bonding the neutral has been discussed here many times, in this case the neutral of the outlet was framed bonded, the wiring to the outlet was reversed and the generator was NOT bonded to an earth ground, ALL of these were contributing factors.

a NON- bonded neutral ( like the USA ver champions ) and the ONLY way I advocate, would have left the frame floating, and NO shock hazard.

bonding the generator to a driven earth ground would have the effect of having the bare ground the genny frame and the trailer frame all at ZERO volts potential to each other even though the wiring was wrong.

and might have tripped your Circuit breakers, it certainly would have tripped a GFI

999.9 otut of 1000 dod not drive ground rods, I don't, thats why its so important to check all power sources before using them, and to have gennys with UN-bonded neutrals ( neutral NOT bonded to the genny frame )

the genny frame is not an earth ground safety unless you bond the it to an earth ground. too many people use the term ground when refering to neutral bonding and it is NOT the same thing

I understand about the pictures and stuff. We have them and the doctor at the med center told us that the burns are extremely minor and not to worry. There was no skin removed. It was more like a bad sunburn. However they will peel just like sunburnt skin. Toni is doing just fine as nothing happened. No pain. She is a real trooper.

The stupid thing is that I know better then to use a produce like a genset before testing. I am a certified electrician and understand the safety issues associated with gensets. My employer sent me to Generac training to learn their systems. We are a certified repair center for home and business emergency gensets. I'm the type of guy who wires a house or business as if my kids were going to live there. I also hold a privat pilots license and fly for the USAF AUX doing search and rescue. Safety is NUMBER ONE! Yes! I'm kicking myself in the butt here because I know better.

After a half on a nights sleep here is the plan:
This morning I will open the genset and take pictures of the wiring from end to end. I will get good close up shots to show every wire and termination point. Tomorrow I will call the Wildfire factory and talk with their rep about the problem. I will fax or email the pictures and see what they are willing to do about the problem. If the factory is good and understanding about it, I will let it go at that and take a reasonable offer. If not, I'll take it into the courts. The funny thing here is that I am not looking to get rich. I just want things done right. Yes, I could take care of the problem and make the genset right in an hour or so but, I will wait until I hear back from the Wildfire people to see what they are willing to do about the problem.


My original plans for the genset was to install it in the side storage box of my coach but learned about the heat problems on this forum. I also decided that it was too much work for a 1980 coach that will be replaced with a class A in a year or two from now. So plan A is out. The new plan B was to purchase a receiver hitch platform for the coach and set the genset on that. I was also going to reset the wiring of the genset to take advantage of the full wattage so I could run my Coleman 13.5 while running down the road. My coach engine A/C does not work anymore. It never cooled the living area of the coach anyway when it did work. When I purchased the coach used the A/C was weak and the previous owner told me the truth about coach and backed it up with documentation for every repair complete with a copy of his personal log book for the coach. I know every mile and place that coach has been including fuel milage. I run the coach almost every weekend. It has paid for itself many times over.

[Old___Slow]

Wgeorge11 You were such a great help to me in my buying the Champion C46540 and I thank you so much. I only wish I could string words together like you and I would better describe how happy I am with the New Champion, I've had such a unique experience on the journey. You and Mr Wizard are my Champ's.

[MrWizard]

TKMJ. I hope your wife is feeling better

I think you need to get things documented, then decide the legal ramifications after you have time to think things over.

take her to the doctor. get the burns examined and photographed

take the generator to an independent shop and get it examined, talk to your insurance agent and get them to recommend a shop or procedures.

then you can make your phone call which ever way you decide

safety is a VERY BIG thing of mine, the issues of frame bonding the neutral has been discussed here many times, in this case the neutral of the outlet was framed bonded, the wiring to the outlet was reversed and the generator was NOT bonded to an earth ground, ALL of these were contributing factors.
EDIT & clarification ( neutral of the outlet was framed bonded )I mean neutral of the windings was bonded to frame.

a NON- bonded neutral ( like the USA ver champions ) and the ONLY way I advocate, would have left the frame floating, and NO shock hazard.

bonding the generator to a driven earth ground would have the effect of having the bare ground the genny frame and the trailer frame all at ZERO volts potential to each other even though the wiring was wrong.

and might have tripped your Circuit breakers, it certainly would have tripped a GFI

999.9 otut of 1000 dod not drive ground rods, I don't, thats why its so important to check all power sources before using them, and to have gennys with UN-bonded neutrals ( neutral NOT bonded to the genny frame )

the genny frame is not an earth ground safety unless you bond the it to an earth ground. too many people use the term ground when refering to neutral bonding and it is NOT the same thing

[CosmicVagabond]

TKMJ wrote:
Here is my 3000w Chinese gen story and I'm sticking to it. LOL!

I did a lot of research and found that the Wildfire 3500 genset was what I thought a good choice. Wildfire is located in Ohio just 40 miles from my home. It was a logical choice. I got my first genset 6 weeks ago. Problem one was the electric start switch. No problem the factory was willing to send me a new one at no charge. After an hour of running two 500 watt quartz worklights, the genset smoked bigtime and quit. It was that fast. The engine kept running. After inspection it was found that the windings toasted. The genset was a lemon. Wildfire was great about the problem and replaced the entire unit with a new on including 6 extra quarts of oil as an "I'm sorry". I would say that Wildfire was honest in their dealings. They were also willing to work out the swap on my time schedule. It finally happened last Saturday while I was traveling to southern Ohio.

Genset 2 (the replacement)
In my own haste to get the genset up and running (a week after I got it) I started that puppy up (yes I added the oil first) and started using the genset. I did not plug my multi tester into the genset to check it. Shame on me bigtime. I ran my saber saw with no problem to cut out some 1/4 plywood figures. After I was finished with the saw I plugged my motorhome in to get some light going inside to get a little work done. It ran fine. I know not to use the A/C and other devices because of the design of the genset. 15amps max per receptical. The A/C sucks 12.5amps. I did not want to over tax the genset. The problem occured when my wife stepped into the motorhome with bare feet. She grabbed the pull up handle at the step and got zapped bigtime. 120 volts from her left hand down to her feet. It knocked her 10 feet as she fell on the driveway. Her hand had minor burns on it from the shock. She also has a minor burn on her right foot bottom. She was locked up on the handle for only a few seconds. I jumped out to help her and also got hit upon my exit. After shutting the genset down I disconnected the genset and plugged my meter into the 120 volt receptical. Here are my results. hot to nuetral 120V. hot to ground zero volts. nuetral to ground 120volts. The recepticals were wired backwards. I then plugged the genset back into the coach and tested the frame to an earth ground 120 vots was the reading. I then disconnected the genset and plugged the coach into the house and retested it. Zero volts from the frame to earth ground. The problem is with the genset and not the coach.

Should my first call about the problem be to the manufacturer or my lawyer. What do you think? I don't think another six quarts of oil is a big enough "I'm sorry" this time.

Ken

Umm, I'd call a lawyer. But thats just me.

[Todd_Barney]

On the road, posting from the Okla. City East KOA. Day 2 of running with the Champion on the tongue, powering the A/C to keep the cats comfy.

Day 1: Ran great, but... seemed to use too much gas, and I was seeing LOTS of oil droplets that had come out of the bottom of the air cleaner housing. Turned out to be MY FAULT. I had removed the air cleaner cover before the trip, looking things over. I put it back on UPSIDE DOWN. The air intake was not lined up with the channel. The thing was sucking for air, creating a vacuum that was pulling oil out of the valve cover via the breather hose. It's a wonder the thing did as well as it did, but it ran the A/C all day long and kept things comfy.

Day 2 - used less gas, and no more oil dripping out. (Yes, I did top off in the morning, it was at the bottom of the dipstick.) Ran fine all day, but the weather was sunny and HOT coming across AR and OK. The TT heated up before got more oil in the gen and got it started, so the A/C was playing catch-up all day. Twice, the 20 amp breaker in the TT tripped. I have a remote temp sensor in the TT, so when I noticed temps starting to climb, I'd pull over, reset the breaker, and we'd be fine for another couple of hours. We'll see if that happens again tomorrow, if I'm careful to start off with the TT nice and cool. We're heading through Amarillo and into NM. I'm a bit worried that the A/C isn't going to handle the CO and UT heat during the day, and trip the breaker while we're out exploring. But I've got some things to try with the thermostat and fan settings. So far, we've had the thermostat set on 78, and the fan on constant Hi.

Already had one guy approach me at a gas station in AR and ask about it - where I got it and how much. May sell a couple of these for Champion before the trip is over. 🙂

[Old___Slow]

........sorry to hear you and the wife had this happen. Hope no lasting effects will develop. Our best wishes to you and yours.

[TKMJ]

Here is my 3000w Chinese gen story and I'm sticking to it. LOL!

I did a lot of research and found that the Wildfire 3500 genset was what I thought a good choice. Wildfire is located in Ohio just 40 miles from my home. It was a logical choice. I got my first genset 6 weeks ago. Problem one was the electric start switch. No problem the factory was willing to send me a new one at no charge. After an hour of running two 500 watt quartz worklights, the genset smoked bigtime and quit. It was that fast. The engine kept running. After inspection it was found that the windings toasted. The genset was a lemon. Wildfire was great about the problem and replaced the entire unit with a new on including 6 extra quarts of oil as an "I'm sorry". I would say that Wildfire was honest in their dealings. They were also willing to work out the swap on my time schedule. It finally happened last Saturday while I was traveling to southern Ohio.

Genset 2 (the replacement)
In my own haste to get the genset up and running (a week after I got it) I started that puppy up (yes I added the oil first) and started using the genset. I did not plug my multi tester into the genset to check it. Shame on me bigtime. I ran my saber saw with no problem to cut out some 1/4 plywood figures. After I was finished with the saw I plugged my motorhome in to get some light going inside to get a little work done. It ran fine. I know not to use the A/C and other devices because of the design of the genset. 15amps max per receptical. The A/C sucks 12.5amps. I did not want to over tax the genset. The problem occured when my wife stepped into the motorhome with bare feet. She grabbed the pull up handle at the step and got zapped bigtime. 120 volts from her left hand down to her feet. It knocked her 10 feet as she fell on the driveway. Her hand had minor burns on it from the shock. She also has a minor burn on her right foot bottom. She was locked up on the handle for only a few seconds. I jumped out to help her and also got hit upon my exit. After shutting the genset down I disconnected the genset and plugged my meter into the 120 volt receptical. Here are my results. hot to nuetral 120V. hot to ground zero volts. nuetral to ground 120volts. The recepticals were wired backwards. I then plugged the genset back into the coach and tested the frame to an earth ground 120 vots was the reading. I then disconnected the genset and plugged the coach into the house and retested it. Zero volts from the frame to earth ground. The problem is with the genset and not the coach.

Should my first call about the problem be to the manufacturer or my lawyer. What do you think? I don't think another six quarts of oil is a big enough "I'm sorry" this time.

Ken

[MrWizard]

ppl in texas has them for $568, i made a post in this thread with the link ( june i think ) I know thats $200 more, but that electric start is handy. and a lot cheaper than an electric start honda,

[Old___Slow]

Sorry Wgeorge, the words should be "hang out to DRY" the shirt not my hide, please.

[Old___Slow]

Wgeorge:

Thanks for the find, however if I raise it on a flag pole people might think I've hung my shirt out to try. I do like the Champion logo shirt and would wear it with pride if a had one. But a Champion flag would be nice. Im a HAPPY CHAMP CAMPER. Just tell then to sell the electric start 3500/4000w through some one online @ a reasonable price.

[Wgeorge11]

Old & Slow
You can wear their logo


http://www.cpeauto.com/accessorie.htm