3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[Old___Slow]

Mr. wizard:

Re: Sliding tray

I checked PPL and their price for a 36" is $349.95. This is way far out of my league. I am now in the process of replacing my old Onan ($2000.00 est for repairs) with a 46540 from CSK @ 340.97 to my door with tax and shipping. The 10% discount is still good. Code GEICOTEN I like the idea of having the Electric Start but the Local RV Dealer is pricing it @ $678.00 so there again, out of my league. Back to the Genset tray, I have designed a retrofit slider perhaps to be marketed at some future time. I want to see the temps with the 46540 in place. The local Onan dealer told me using the tray from the Onan is not going to work. We will see. Maybe you can give a report on this subject. I will use a small fan blowing on the unit. There seems to be plenty of ventilation area. Here is hoping I will be another (Champ) guy. All because of the need to save the $$$'s

[MrWizard]

it came with the RV, and you can buy similar trays from PPL motorhomes in texas, they have an online catalog and you can order a real catalog from them

kikwi the step people make them, this orignaly held a 6.5k 400lb onan

[freeatlast]

jdwAg20 wrote:
I change the oil between every game and had never had any issues. For the money, this genenerator is great.

I agree 100% on the customer support issue. Unfortunately the rest of the people there I have come across were a little short. But it's customer support that we want and they are the greatest!

While we're at it, I have only used my gen for 1-2 hours total so far (in between the 2 replacement AVR's:)). What is the easiest way to change the oil?

[Old___Slow]

Mr. Wizard:

I ask before about the sliding tray shown on 5-31-07 with the 20008 on board. What I see looks like a ball bearing track on each side. Is this your design or perhaps it came with the RV ? If this is a retrofit is it for sale and where?

[jdwAg20]

Bought the C46540 last Aug for college football tailgating. Have a 2007 VR1305 33' travel trailer. You can't beat this generator. I have buddies that dropped $2k+ on two hondas that run in parallel, and while I'd like to have the same, my Champion is great. During Sept/Oct it runs non-stop (except for fill-ups) Fri evening to Sunday morning. We run the A/C with tv most of the time. Fridge is on propane. We're able to run the coffee maker at the same time with no issue. The wife can run a blow dryer. It's much quieter than some of the jet-engine contractor models in the lot, but I wish it had an idle feature. It runs full-bore no matter what. I built an enclosure made up of 3 pieces. I took two pieces of plywood and hinged them together. Did the same with another two pieces. This allows me to create a four-sided enclosure with flexibility to open either corner slightly for ventilation. It also allows space for the power cord. I have a one piece cover that I position over the top in the event it rains. I dealt with customer service after the last game when the low-oil shutoff didn't work and I threw a rod. They replaced the engine for free when a local repair shop said it wasn't covered and it was my error. I change the oil between every game and had never had any issues. For the money, this genenerator is great.

[wpoling]

Wgeorge11 wrote:

wpoling wrote:
O.K. with the assistance of a VERY helpful technician at Champion I have figured out my problems. It appears that sometime between the inital defective voltage regulator and the second one that allowed excessive high voltage to pass, I melted the wiring harness near the 120/240 change over switch as well as the switch.

Can't really blame the machine, I feel there were a combination of events that lead up to this failure, excessive heat, heavy load, and less than ideal ventilation.

Parts are on the way as well as tech documents and install instructions.

This is a good testimonial for solid Champion customer support. Now I would hope to hear about user problems and manufacturer's support for other units, either Chinese clones, or the "real McCoy's".
Is this an anomoly or what?

You have no clue as to what an understatement that is!! When it broke down during my camping trip, the technician gave me his PERSONAL CELL PHONE number!! Told me to call him anytime, day or night, if I had any more problems!!

That's WAY beyond customer service, that's taking PRIDE in you product and in your job!!

Remember when Ford and Chevy USED to be that way?? Other companies could learn alot from CHAMPION....

Bill

[Oldfordman]

Wgeorge11 wrote:

wpoling wrote:
O.K. with the assistance of a VERY helpful technician at Champion I have figured out my problems. It appears that sometime between the inital defective voltage regulator and the second one that allowed excessive high voltage to pass, I melted the wiring harness near the 120/240 change over switch as well as the switch.

Can't really blame the machine, I feel there were a combination of events that lead up to this failure, excessive heat, heavy load, and less than ideal ventilation.

Parts are on the way as well as tech documents and install instructions.

This is a good testimonial for solid Champion customer support. Now I would hope to hear about user problems and manufacturer's support for other units, either Chinese clones, or the "real McCoy's".
Is this an anomoly or what?

The quality of a company's Customer Service is best defined when things turn to poop rather than when everything is running great. Sometimes the "Real McCoy's" Claim superior service but it then becomes the regular beaurocracy when their product needs help.

Yay for Champion!!! I haven't had to use their service yet but it is nice to know they will be there if I do.

[Wgeorge11]

wpoling wrote:
O.K. with the assistance of a VERY helpful technician at Champion I have figured out my problems. It appears that sometime between the inital defective voltage regulator and the second one that allowed excessive high voltage to pass, I melted the wiring harness near the 120/240 change over switch as well as the switch.

Can't really blame the machine, I feel there were a combination of events that lead up to this failure, excessive heat, heavy load, and less than ideal ventilation.

Parts are on the way as well as tech documents and install instructions.

This is a good testimonial for solid Champion customer support. Now I would hope to hear about user problems and manufacturer's support for other units, either Chinese clones, or the "real McCoy's".
Is this an anomoly or what?

[wpoling]

O.K. with the assistance of a VERY helpful technician at Champion I have figured out my problems. It appears that sometime between the inital defective voltage regulator and the second one that allowed excessive high voltage to pass, I melted the wiring harness near the 120/240 change over switch as well as the switch.

Can't really blame the machine, I feel there were a combination of events that lead up to this failure, excessive heat, heavy load, and less than ideal ventilation.

Parts are on the way as well as tech documents and install instructions.

[sanman]

The 12v dc output is really rectified ac and goes to 0 volts 120 times a second. I installed a electronic hour meter on my 3000 unit. Had to put a resistor capacitor filter as it would not work on the 12volt gen output but worked fine on battery votlage

[MrWizard]

you might try a diode and tiny filter cap or a 12v regulator to supply a more stable voltage to the meter

[Todd_Barney]

Oldfordman wrote:

bugdude wrote:
Oldfordman,
This is the one that I bought. I assume it will work.

Oldfordman wrote:
There is absolutely no reason not to as long as the hour meter uses 12V DC. The current draw from the meter won't even be noticed by the generator. The 12V output is there regardless of the other choice of outputs (120 or 240volts). Unless you are hooked to a battery, the 12V output is only there when the set is running.

Kevin.

It should work great! The voltage range of 5-27 Volts DC puts the output voltage of the charging outlet right in the middle.

Go for it.

BTW, it looks like this company also offers the same type meters in other functions. A Digital Voltmeter would be nice too to go with the hour meter.

Yesterday, I hooked up the hour meter mentioned in the above posts. Once I got the gen running, I noticed something odd.

Several times per minute, the hour meter would go blank - turn off for a split second as if voltage had been removed - then come back on.

I hooked up my Fluke multi-meter to the 12v output. It was reading ~14.85v. When the hour meter would flash off for a split second, the Fluke would show the reading drop to 14.77v, then come right back up to 14.85v. This was happening rather quickly, so I don't know if the voltage was actually dropping much more than that and the meter only had time to register a small drop before full voltage was once again applied.

The hour meter appeared to be functioning fine, otherwise. After about 6 minutes, it went from 0.0 to 0.1.

But it's as if the 12v output is dropping out a few times a minute, just for a split second each time.

Think that's normal?

[wpoling]

Todd Barney wrote:
Vibration, then?

Sloshing cause the low-oil shutoff to trigger?

Do keep us posted on the resolution. I'm about to make a long trip with my Champ mounted on the tongue of my TT, and am hoping for flawless performance.

Engine was still running, so low oil had nothing to do with it. I'll take a good look at it this evening and let you all know whay I come up with.

[wpoling]

MrWizard wrote:
what was the ambient air temps where you were parked and when traveling, I assume that turbulance at the back of the TT makes cross flow non-exsitent, and with the lid on top, you have locked all the heat inside

my opinion, is the box has to go when the genny is running, especally on the highway

even with the top open you are restricting air flow and heat that would normally radiate away from the engine and genny head is being contained in the box

several people have build boxes with open tops for stationary use, the professor and others have done testing, its very hard to get the box where there is good air movememt and keep the tempertures down

Ambient air temps. were hitting the upper 80's when parked and was hitting the lower 90's while in transit. Have been busy, I'll tear into it and see if I can figure it out this evening.

[dhughes126]

HuckFinn410 wrote:
Well, I took the plunge and bought the Champion 4000 gas generator at Cabela's (price matched to $299). I brought it home, added the required fluids and it started right up. I hooked it up to my camper and first turned the fan on and then switched on the A/C. At first it seemed to be fine but then about 10 seconds later the condensor must have kicked on and the generator started sputtering and hopping up and down in the driveway. Finally after about 3 seconds the generator shut off altogether. I tried a couple more times and got the same results.

I had nothing on in the camper but the A/C unit.

I have zero technical / electrical knowledge.

Can someone give me some suggestions?

thanks for an amazing thread!

Huckfinn

I bought the Champion 3500/4000 last week on 7-10-07. The first day it ran the A/C in my TT just fine, but the second day it exhibited the behaviour that you described. It was 100 degrees outside the TT, so I kept trying different things, and finally discovered, that if I switched OFF the A/C, and set the thermostat really high before switching it back to cool, the generator was OK. I would then ease the thermostat to just below the ambient temperature in the TT (about 82) and wait for the A/C to kick on. When this occured the generator would sputter a moment, but then would rev back up and carry the load. I could then set the Thermostat down to 75 with no problem, and then watch DVDs for a few hours while we waited for the heat of the day to cool down. I also monitored the A/C voltage using a small plug in meter (http://www.campingworld.com/browse/skus/index.cfm?skunum=29375&src=SRQB) from camping world, and it was always in the green zone.