3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[cmg3500]

Wuttevr wrote:
I am the least qualified, but since no one else has responded since you posted last night, I will regurgitate previously given advice in this situation.

I realize you stated that you had nothing else in the camper "on". However, we have to be absolutely certain that the fridge is off, and not just in auto mode. How about the water heater, assuming it even has an electric element? What is the state of charge of your batteries?

I would start up the generator and head into the camper. Turn the fan on high and while waiting, double check that all possible electrical loads are gone. I would wait 5 or so minutes and then kick the compressor on. The last time I had trouble, I had to run the fan at least this long.

If you still have problems, try disconnecting your batteries. I don't know how many watts a converter/charger can consume of the available 3,500, but it could be significant if your batteries are low. Be sure to wait several minutes (with the fan running)in between attempts to start up the compressor.

Beyond that, it might be the old "OEM save a buck" problem of the A/C unit not having the hard start kit included. I don't have the vernacular, let alone the knowledge of some others on this forum, so hopefully they will chime in on the specifics here. But basically, as I understand it, the hard start kit is a capacitor that stores up some juice in anticipation of the huge draw when the compressor first starts up. If your A/C unit lacks this, the current draw at start up can be well in excess of the wattage your Champion can provide, even at its peak rating.

I have read numbers in the $60-70 range for the kit. I have also read that checking to see if you have it is rather easy. I will have to defer to those smarter than I on this particular point.

Good luck.

If you can,or know someone that can get Air cond. parts Wholesale,you can get a universal hard start kit for around $10-$20.(I think they are made by Supco)I get them for that price for all the time.Very easy to hook up too,just hook up in parrell with the run capacator,& turn the unit on.

[ol_Bombero-JC]

PJ - you say - "had planned . . . "

Did you use the 3" PVC?

[P_J1]

blkfe wrote:

nmfiredawg wrote:
Hi everyone. I emailed Champion about maybe about adding a piece of pipe to the exhaust to send it up and out of the truck, they said tha tI shouldn't and when I asked about the sound abatement they just pointed back here.

I have seen some boxes on here, does anyone have an easy one that I can put it in and leave in the back of the truck. I have to move the generator when I unhook the 5vr but then it stays in the back. If I keep it on one side in the bed the other doesn't fill any hotter then when the sun hits, but have only taken it out once.

What is everyone else doing. Just want to be a little nicer to neighbers if I have them. Don't really want to go out and buy a honda or yamaha since I don't go that often.

Thanks

I had planned on hooking my exhaust ("venturi style") to a piece of 3" PVC. This way, I have increased the size by 7 or so times, and let air mix in at the connection to make sure the pipe doesn't get too hot.

I used a piece of pre-bent 90* piece of 1" rigid conduit and fabricated a flange that I welded to it and bolted up where the spark arrestor is.

I posted some pics here about 50 pages back or so of my enclosure. (that I don't use because of not enough air)

[blkfe]

nmfiredawg wrote:
Hi everyone. I emailed Champion about maybe about adding a piece of pipe to the exhaust to send it up and out of the truck, they said tha tI shouldn't and when I asked about the sound abatement they just pointed back here.

I have seen some boxes on here, does anyone have an easy one that I can put it in and leave in the back of the truck. I have to move the generator when I unhook the 5vr but then it stays in the back. If I keep it on one side in the bed the other doesn't fill any hotter then when the sun hits, but have only taken it out once.

What is everyone else doing. Just want to be a little nicer to neighbers if I have them. Don't really want to go out and buy a honda or yamaha since I don't go that often.

Thanks

After reading through numerous posts I have came to the conclusion that adding exhaust pipe the the exhaust to vent fumes is acceptable as long as the pipe size is large enough. Many posts on people doing this.

[blkfe]

nmfiredawg wrote:
Hi everyone. I emailed Champion about maybe about adding a piece of pipe to the exhaust to send it up and out of the truck, they said tha tI shouldn't and when I asked about the sound abatement they just pointed back here.

I have seen some boxes on here, does anyone have an easy one that I can put it in and leave in the back of the truck. I have to move the generator when I unhook the 5vr but then it stays in the back. If I keep it on one side in the bed the other doesn't fill any hotter then when the sun hits, but have only taken it out once.

What is everyone else doing. Just want to be a little nicer to neighbers if I have them. Don't really want to go out and buy a honda or yamaha since I don't go that often.

Thanks

[blkfe]

Sorry...I get it.(ac off though) is in reference to airconditioner not AC voltage.....
What forest...what trees.....
lol
Brad

[blkfe]

Thank-you all for your replies. I have concidered a low voltage controled contactor (relay) but it would be so much easier if I did not need it.
I don't understand "started with fridge and lights on (ac off)".
Do you mean you started it with the converter box connected (AC to DC box)?
My RV is genset ready and it has a start, run, stop switch already but no
remote AC disconnect. Does this mean the Onans & such don,t need one but the
champion type gensets do? if so, Why?

[CallMeD]

blkfe wrote:
I am interested in the champion genset for my RV. I want to mount it it the existing generator compartment. This genset is electrict start.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Quiet-Portable-Electric-Gas-Power-Generator-RV-EZ-Start_W0QQitemZ130131212945QQi...

I want to know if anyone has this genset and if it has electronic voltage control.
Also, Can a person start and stop these generators with the load attached?
I'm not talking air conditioner because I would turn that off. I,m thinking
converter. Electric start won't be much advantage for me if I have to go out and unplug the RV every time I start or stop the unit. My RV has a genset control panel already in place. I would just wire it up to the start circuit.
I have an auto choke figured out as well...
Any thoughts?

I have this unit, but pull start.

I have started and stopped it with the fridge and lights on (ac off though) more times than I can count.I have let it run from 10am-11pm none stop (except for fuel) and it's ran great. 1 time it did shake which was weird as nothing was on other than the fridge. Other than that, it's great (so far about 50-60 hours)

[nmfiredawg]

Hi everyone. I emailed Champion about maybe about adding a piece of pipe to the exhaust to send it up and out of the truck, they said tha tI shouldn't and when I asked about the sound abatement they just pointed back here.

I have seen some boxes on here, does anyone have an easy one that I can put it in and leave in the back of the truck. I have to move the generator when I unhook the 5vr but then it stays in the back. If I keep it on one side in the bed the other doesn't fill any hotter then when the sun hits, but have only taken it out once.

What is everyone else doing. Just want to be a little nicer to neighbers if I have them. Don't really want to go out and buy a honda or yamaha since I don't go that often.

Thanks

[Wuttevr]

blkfe wrote:
I am interested in the champion genset for my RV. I want to mount it it the existing generator compartment. This genset is electrict start.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Quiet-Portable-Electric-Gas-Power-Generator-RV-EZ-Start_W0QQitemZ130131212945QQi...

I want to know if anyone has this genset and if it has electronic voltage control.
Also, Can a person start and stop these generators with the load attached?
I'm not talking air conditioner because I would turn that off. I,m thinking
converter. Electric start won't be much advantage for me if I have to go out and unplug the RV every time I start or stop the unit. My RV has a genset control panel already in place. I would just wire it up to the start circuit.
I have an auto choke figured out as well...
Any thoughts?

The Champion has a 3-position switch on the panel: 120-off-240. I always start mine in the off position. I know I have read posts from the electrical experts that you should never start or stop under load. So I wonder if this switch could be remoted to your control center? That way you could start from inside under no load. Just a thought. Even if the switch is high amperage, I would think a relay could be put to use.

We need Mr. Wizard or the Professor to chime in on this one.

[getvrtcl]

I bought the same unit and have had NO issues with it at all. I never start it with the AC on, but the converter and sometimes the fridg is on when I start it. I love the electric start and the engine is a generic Honda. I have about 160 hours in last few months on it and have done nothing but change the fluids.
If I can be of any help let me know.

[Wuttevr]

I am the least qualified, but since no one else has responded since you posted last night, I will regurgitate previously given advice in this situation.

I realize you stated that you had nothing else in the camper "on". However, we have to be absolutely certain that the fridge is off, and not just in auto mode. How about the water heater, assuming it even has an electric element? What is the state of charge of your batteries?

I would start up the generator and head into the camper. Turn the fan on high and while waiting, double check that all possible electrical loads are gone. I would wait 5 or so minutes and then kick the compressor on. The last time I had trouble, I had to run the fan at least this long.

If you still have problems, try disconnecting your batteries. I don't know how many watts a converter/charger can consume of the available 3,500, but it could be significant if your batteries are low. Be sure to wait several minutes (with the fan running)in between attempts to start up the compressor.

Beyond that, it might be the old "OEM save a buck" problem of the A/C unit not having the hard start kit included. I don't have the vernacular, let alone the knowledge of some others on this forum, so hopefully they will chime in on the specifics here. But basically, as I understand it, the hard start kit is a capacitor that stores up some juice in anticipation of the huge draw when the compressor first starts up. If your A/C unit lacks this, the current draw at start up can be well in excess of the wattage your Champion can provide, even at its peak rating.

I have read numbers in the $60-70 range for the kit. I have also read that checking to see if you have it is rather easy. I will have to defer to those smarter than I on this particular point.

Good luck.

[blkfe]

I am interested in the champion genset for my RV. I want to mount it it the existing generator compartment. This genset is electrict start.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Quiet-Portable-Electric-Gas-Power-Generator-RV-EZ-Start_W0QQitemZ130131212945QQi...

I want to know if anyone has this genset and if it has electronic voltage control.
Also, Can a person start and stop these generators with the load attached?
I'm not talking air conditioner because I would turn that off. I,m thinking
converter. Electric start won't be much advantage for me if I have to go out and unplug the RV every time I start or stop the unit. My RV has a genset control panel already in place. I would just wire it up to the start circuit.
I have an auto choke figured out as well...
Any thoughts?

[HuckFinn410]

Well, I took the plunge and bought the Champion 4000 gas generator at Cabela's (price matched to $299). I brought it home, added the required fluids and it started right up. I hooked it up to my camper and first turned the fan on and then switched on the A/C. At first it seemed to be fine but then about 10 seconds later the condensor must have kicked on and the generator started sputtering and hopping up and down in the driveway. Finally after about 3 seconds the generator shut off altogether. I tried a couple more times and got the same results.

I had nothing on in the camper but the A/C unit.

I have zero technical / electrical knowledge.

Can someone give me some suggestions?

thanks for an amazing thread!

Huckfinn

[toprudder]

Oldfordman wrote:
Something else to consider is Fuel and Altitude. Altitude can reduce the power output of the generator engine. The higher the altitude, the less power available. Also consider that lots of fuel today contains up to 10% Ethanol. this can cause a further reduction in available power output by as much as 6%. 4,000 Watts is only 3760 when using Fuel with 10% Ethanol. Ethanol has only about 60% the power per pound that gasoline has.

I'm not sure about ethanol, but I do know that methanol has less heat energy per pound than gasoline. However, methanol burns at a much richer fuel/air mixture than gasoline so the net effect is that it can produce more power in an internal combustion engine.

But, that brings up a good point, how does E10 affect the fuel/air mixture needs on a carbureted engine?

Bob R.