3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[Old___Slow]

MrWizard wrote:
Dan
If you use manual switches it should be done with one multi pole switch Or with some kind of mechanical lock out so only one switch can be engaged

The safety aspect (to prevent fire or injury) can not be over emphasized

I know one fellow who put two RV outlets in the power cord compartment, one wired to the generator, one wired to the inverter,
He plugs the shore cord into power source he wants, genny, inverter, shore pedestal,
Totally fool proof and failure proof

I have always believed in KISS. And keep it short and sweet. The about post is just what I have been looking to find. There are followers (readers) of this thread that have lot's of 'lectricial talent and then there is old and slow. For me, the above idea fits the bill. Thanks, Wiz ~

[Dan86300zxt]

MrWizard wrote:
Dan
If you use manual switches it should be done with one multi pole switch Or with some kind of mechanical lock out so only one switch can be engaged

The safety aspect (to prevent fire or injury) can not be over emphasized

I know one fellow who put two RV outlets in the power cord compartment, one wired to the generator, one wired to the inverter,
He plugs the shore cord into power source he wants, genny, inverter, shore pedestal,
Totally fool proof and failure proof

I understand exactly what you mean....setting things up the way I am is a complex ordeal. This part of the wiring I had not put much thought into, and figured posting would force me to get it done, get it sorted out, and to get others opinions.

MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!!

I have it all mapped out in a diagram(makes perfect sense to me). Explaining it with words on the screen to everyone makes it harder to understand how its going to work. I'm sure pictures of the finished installation and set-up will make it more clear.(A link to Pix will be coming when I am done)
Thanks everyone!
Dan

[MrRchitty]

Since we're on the topic... I have a 750 Watt msw inverter. Any issues using with LCD flat screen?

[MrWizard]

Dan
If you use manual switches it should be done with one multi pole switch Or with some kind of mechanical lock out so only one switch can be engaged

The safety aspect (to prevent fire or injury) can not be over emphasized

I know one fellow who put two RV outlets in the power cord compartment, one wired to the generator, one wired to the inverter,
He plugs the shore cord into power source he wants, genny, inverter, shore pedestal,
Totally fool proof and failure proof

[Dan86300zxt]

Well...
*Deep researching tells me I DO NOT WANT TO TIE THESE COMPONENTS TOGETHER....ISOLATING THEM IS NECESSARY.
(Thank you for you two responding..It lit a fire under my rear)

**So, being the cheap fabricator I am...I am going to utilize 2 dual metal boxes and 4 two pole 30 amp light switches to handle my scenario.

-This will be MY manual switching set-up:

INVERTER(in-line GFCI used and wired only with white(nuetral) and Black(hot) as professor mentioned)

-2000 watt Inverter will be wired directly to the same metal junction box as the Shore Power cord...BUT the Black/Hot wires from the Shore Power cord and the Inverter will be interupted by 1 of my metal boxes with two Switches.

(One of these switches will be mounted upside down in the metal box and the switches tied together by bracketing I fabricate so they can't be thrown individually, they only rock in the same direction/together.****FOR THOSE THAT CANNOT UNDERSTAND WHAT I MEAN...when one switch is turning 1 circuit off, the other switch is turning 1 on, when the pair of switches is moved in the same direction:C)

*Throw the locked pair of switches left towards the Shore power Cord box and the Shore Power Cord is "Live" powering the House 120v Breaker Box....Throw the locked pair of switches towards the Inverter and now the Inverter is "Live" powering the House 120v Breaker Box.

GENERATOR

-Hard wire my generator AND Shore Power Cord to a standard outlet(for my Progressive Dynamics Battery Converter/Charger)....BUT interupt the Black/Hot wires for the Shore Power Cord and the Generator with 1 of my metal boxes and a pair of switches.

Note:
(I will be coming out of the outlet metal box with wiring to the original RV Style receptacle in a seperate metal box)

Same deal as above>>(One of these switches will be mounted upside down in the metal box and the switches tied together by something I fabricate so they can't be thrown individually.)

*Throw the locked pair of switches to the left towards the Shore Power Cord and Power to the outlet and RV receptacle is "Live" powered by the Shore Power Cord.
-(now battery charging can be done while plugged in with the Shore Power Cord)

*Plug the Shore power cord into the Shore Power Receptacle and throw the locked pair of switches to the right towards the Generator....now the House Breaker Box and outlet is "Live"...powered off the Generator.
-(now battery charging and house 120v items are powered off of the Generator)

[professor95]

Dan86300zxt wrote:
Proffessor... I have a question on my 120 volt wiring.

*I am in the process of wiring up the 2k generator that I have custom fitted to my generator compartment.

-I am thinking ahead just a little and I have a couple things I am unsure of, and my instincts are telling me to do this, (which I'll explain in a second), but I want to get your opinion on it.

**In my scenario....there are 3 options/methods for 120v power to be sent to the MH breaker box.

-30amp Shore power RV plug.

-Six GC2 batteries wired in and connected to a 2000watt SineWave Inverter.

-2k Generator.

***I have an outlet that the MH came with that matches the 30amp Shore Power Plug.
-I am thinking about wiring both the Generator and the SineWave inverter to the Outlet, but utilizing a heavy duty on/off switch in a seperate box for each(generator and SineWave inverter) before the RV outlet.
-This allows me to manually isolate each source.

****Am I over doing it? Is there a need for this? What could happen if say for instance, Shore Power Plug was powered up and 120v was applied to the SineWave Inverter and the Generator when they were Off????
(...as long as the power switch for the inverter was off and not operating, same for the generator...engine not running, would everything be fine?)

No, you are not over doing it at all.

99.9% of all inverters are factory made with the inverter's identified neutral bonded to the grounding side of the output circuit. This is a situation that I have always advocated as being less than safe in an RV. Once the inverter is switched into the circuit, the neutral bus and ground buss are interconnected without the benefit of an earth ground as provided by shore power. Therefore, I encourage folks to mount their inverter on a piece of plywood or other material so that the case is NOT physically connected to the RV frame. The next step is to supply power to the RV through a two prong plug (no grounding) and a GFCI interface in-line.

On the switch, common specification grade 3-way light switches like you get at Home Depot are actually single pole double throw switches. If you put TWO of these in a 2 gang utility box and tie the handles together with a long 4-40 nut and bolt (holes drilled thru the switch handles) so they both move in tandem you have a great manual either-or transfer switch for the inverter and generator to interface with the RV's 30 amp power cord. I run such a system with the added feature of an automatic switch. It has proved to be extremely reliable.

Good luck on your project. If you need any help I (and I am sure others) will be glad to offer arm-chair advice.



GFCI interface for use betwen inverter and RV




Photo showing ganged 3-way light switches used as 4 DPDT selector for generator/inverter. Automatic switching is done with an electric door lock solenoid connected to a remote push button.

[jlaustin]

Dan86300zxt wrote:
Proffessor... I have a question on my 120 volt wiring.

*I am in the process of wiring up the 2k generator that I have custom fitted to my generator compartment.

-I am thinking ahead just a little and I have a couple things I am unsure of, and my instincts are telling me to do this, (which I'll explain in a second), but I want to get your opinion on it.

**In my scenario....there are 3 options/methods for 120v power to be sent to the MH breaker box.

-30amp Shore power RV plug.

-Six GC2 batteries wired in and connected to a 2000watt SineWave Inverter.

-2k Generator.

***I have an outlet that the MH came with that matches the 30amp Shore Power Plug.
-I am thinking about wiring both the Generator and the SineWave inverter to the Outlet, but utilizing a heavy duty on/off switch in a seperate box for each(generator and SineWave inverter) before the RV outlet.
-This allows me to manually isolate each source.

****Am I over doing it? Is there a need for this? What could happen if say for instance, Shore Power Plug was powered up and 120v was applied to the SineWave Inverter and the Generator when they were Off????
(...as long as the power switch for the inverter was off and not operating, same for the generator...engine not running, would everything be fine?)

In addition to the shore line, I've also got a genset that can supply all the circuits in my panel and I've got an inverter that can energize the 110v outlets (primarily for the TV/DVD/surround sound)and the dedicated microwave outlet. I elected to use two automatic transfer switches wired so that the shore line has priority, then the genset, then the inverter. This makes it automatic and impossible to connect two sources to the same circuit. I like the "automatic" aspect in that someone not quite familiar with the circuits doesn't have to switch or connect anything to get power! (Of course, the real reason I did it was just because it could be done!:B Just another alternative to consider!
Regards,
John

[MrRchitty]

I have shore power do its thing. I took a project box and with a 20amp rated double pole double throw switch, I isolated one circuit which controls the general plugs and TV. One way the circuit gets its power from shore. Switch it the other way and it gets its power from the 750watt msw inverter. Battery bank is from 2 29 series deep cycle batteries. When money allows, I'll switch out for a pure sine wave inverter. This way I can power cell phone chargers, laptopp, and tv. The sound system and dvd are 12 volts.

[Dan86300zxt]

Proffessor... I have a question on my 120 volt wiring.

*I am in the process of wiring up the 2k generator that I have custom fitted to my generator compartment.

-I am thinking ahead just a little and I have a couple things I am unsure of, and my instincts are telling me to do this, (which I'll explain in a second), but I want to get your opinion on it.

**In my scenario....there are 3 options/methods for 120v power to be sent to the MH breaker box.

-30amp Shore power RV plug.

-Six GC2 batteries wired in and connected to a 2000watt SineWave Inverter.

-2k Generator.

***I have an outlet that the MH came with that matches the 30amp Shore Power Plug.
-I am thinking about wiring both the Generator and the SineWave inverter to the Outlet, but utilizing a heavy duty on/off switch in a seperate box for each(generator and SineWave inverter) before the RV outlet.
-This allows me to manually isolate each source.

****Am I over doing it? Is there a need for this? What could happen if say for instance, Shore Power Plug was powered up and 120v was applied to the SineWave Inverter and the Generator when they were Off????
(...as long as the power switch for the inverter was off and not operating, same for the generator...engine not running, would everything be fine?)

[SonicLogic]

professor95 wrote:
Not to confuse the issue, but black is hot on AC systems and ground on DC systems. Gets confusing, doesn't it??

Not to mention British cars made prior to 1968 with positive ground systems. Also, some American cars and many tractors were made with positive ground systems.

[professor95]

ol Bombero-JC wrote:
O & S:
I always thought all I had to know for 'lectrical stuff was:

Black and White makes a light, and Green is ground the world around.

Then somebody told me otherwise - - and I'm still working on figuring it all out - - but haven't progressed much further, LOL!

So - you've done good!.:B

~

Not to confuse the issue, but black is hot on AC systems and ground on DC systems. Gets confusing, doesn't it??

And Floyd, you have done good. You are correct on the GFCI device - it does not need the grounding (green) wire to work.

[professor95]

Cox89XJ wrote:
I just got back from a few days of boondocking. The Kenowa 4k generator developed a problem while in use. It would start out running fine, then after about 5 minutes it would start missing. I had added a fuel filter in the gas line and thought the problem might be in it. After I got home and with a little help from my friend, we found the problem. It was the low oil switch. I unplugged it and all is well. One reason I didn’t consider the low oil switch was, I thought when it sensed low oil it shut the motor off, not make it miss? This was not the case with mine. By the way, the oil level was okay.

Don't know anything about the Kenowa, but the low oil switch should be connected to the "transition" which is a latch that grounds the ignition when the crankcase oil float closes. Your case is a strange one to me. Your transition may be bad????

[Cox89XJ]

I just got back from a few days of boondocking. The Kenowa 4k generator developed a problem while in use. It would start out running fine, then after about 5 minutes it would start missing. I had added a fuel filter in the gas line and thought the problem might be in it. After I got home and with a little help from my friend, we found the problem. It was the low oil switch. I unplugged it and all is well. One reason I didn’t consider the low oil switch was, I thought when it sensed low oil it shut the motor off, not make it miss? This was not the case with mine. By the way, the oil level was okay.

[Old___Slow]

ol Bombero-JC wrote:
O & S:
I always thought all I had to know for 'lectrical stuff was:

Black and White makes a light, and Green is ground the world around.

Then somebody told me otherwise - - and I'm still working on figuring it all out - - but haven't progressed much further, LOL!

So - you've done good!.:B

~

JC:

I da know 'bout having done good, still trying to hang around with you folks that know how to light my dark side. And I miss Wgeorge11 who posted here once in a while. He once said, "if you haven't made a few wires smoke, you ain't done much of anything" something like that. That green wire thing? It's a world beater. And grounding that white wire to something or nothing, hummm! And that GFCI thingy?, 'nother monster. Prof' said it will do the trick, so I'm okay with that. If I have given the impression I've made the grade, sorry. But, I'm still here.:D

[Dan86300zxt]

TeamSlacker wrote:
I planned on leaving the new AP2kw alone till I could do some more db tests, but the rattle got the best of me and I tore it apart and picked up a couple cans of ruberized undercoating. Here's a peak inside.
http://flic.kr/p/9nP5CE
http://flic.kr/p/9nP61u

**I figured I'd throw in an update...
-I have torn my AP2Kw apart and completely reverse engineered it for mounting into my MH cabinent.

*(I notice yours has the charcoal canister??...mine is identical in every way except, no canister. SPecifically, I am speaking of the vacuum line and associated item you have pictured laying on the top of the fuel tank and leading down near the air filter)

(much, much easier to do than I thought it would be)

Just a heads up for anyone with one of these units...Take and remove the outer plastic casing and go through checking/tightening everything you can get your hands on!!!

-almost all my hardware fastening things to my gen was "loose as a goose", (with exception to the muffler bolts, most of the bolts holding the engine together, and the carb).

^^I was surprised at things like motor mount bolts and motor frame extension, even the plastic outer covering all LOOSE.