3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[professor95]

So in laymen's terms... If you switch the generator to the 120 position you can get all available power from the 120 outlets? I am asking because I looking to buy this generator for hurricanes and I don't need 220 at all.

YES is your answer.

But, I am not a layman. Simple yes or no answers, though often requested, are not what I usually give. Thus, here is more that "might" either confuse or explain.........

Look at the two schematics of your generator that I have doctored up.

The one that shows the 120 mode and parallel coils puts both windings one on top of the other (parallel). In short, if each has 120 volts and we push with two rather than one, we will add the power (wattage is power). The switch selects the routing of voltage and current to the outlets. The green shows the connections inside the switch when it is moved to a particular position. In the 120 volt position, no voltage or current is routed to the 220 twistlock outlet.



Take a gander at the one for the 240 volt mode. Note the common connection in the center of the switch where turquoise meets violet. This ties the two windings together at the “center” and provides a neutral or common connection. Since the main winding and winding A will have a phase differential in reference to this point, we refer to it as the zero crossing point – again, the neutral point. Remember, both windings are connected together at this point, which puts them is series. The violet goes on to complete the circuit in the main coil and goes back to the twistlock. Note the duplex is not even connected in this mode. The yellow does the same thing through winding A.


I know it looks complex on the surface, but underneath it is really very simple.

Hope this helps to demystify all this stuff…….

[Gilitar]

professor95 wrote:

According to the schematic, when the switch is in the 220/240 position your duplex outlet is disconnected. When in the 120 position it is connected. You will have 25 amps available at the twist lock outlet, but not to a single 120 volt leg. Thus, this is NOT the outlet you want to use for your RV. When in the 220 position you will have two 120 volt legs, each at 12.5 amps. You can only use one of these legs at a time on a 30Amp TT circuit.

When the duplex outlet is under power, both windings in the generator are parallel, giving you full available wattage at 120 volts to a single combined outlet. Both the top and bottom portion of the duplex outlet are connected in this position. The often discussed power maximizer would be a good item to plug into the duplex outlet on your unit to convert to the 30 Amp TT plug.

Leave the 220 twistlock alone.

So in laymen's terms... If you switch the generator to the 120 position you can get all available power from the 120 outlets? I am asking because I looking to buy this generator for hurricanes and I don't need 220 at all.

[professor95]

Here it is. Sorry that it not a very good pic, but it works. I am curious if I will get 25 amps at the twist lock. Can anyone look at this schematic and tell me?

According to the schematic, when the switch is in the 220/240 position your duplex outlet is disconnected. When in the 120 position it is connected. You will have 25 amps available at the twist lock outlet, but not to a single 120 volt leg. Thus, this is NOT the outlet you want to use for your RV. When in the 220 position you will have two 120 volt legs, each at 12.5 amps. You can only use one of these legs at a time on a 30Amp TT circuit.

When the duplex outlet is under power, both windings in the generator are parallel, giving you full available wattage at 120 volts to a single combined outlet. Both the top and bottom portion of the duplex outlet are connected in this position. The often discussed power maximizer would be a good item to plug into the duplex outlet on your unit to convert to the 30 Amp TT plug.

Leave the 220 twistlock alone.

[triplej]

55yroldkid wrote:
Could somebody with the new WEN PowerPro 3500 with the switch to allow the full 3500 watts to the outlets post the schematic that came with it in the owners manual?

Here it is. Sorry that it not a very good pic, but it works. I am curious if I will get 25 amps at the twist lock. Can anyone look at this schematic and tell me? The picture is bigger at this website: (Just cut and past this link)
http://server1.pictiger.com/img/89033/picture-hosting/powerpro-3500.jpg


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[triplej]

professor95 wrote:

triplej wrote:
I have some pics of mine as well. I tried to post them, but can't figure out how to do it either. If someone will let me know, I will post them.

You need a photo hosting service. I personally use http://www.photobucket.com
It is free, but you do need to register. It is simple to upload images from your PC to this site. Once done, paste the url for your image into your message by clicking on the "image" icon in the editor you use to create your messages for this forum.

Thanks,

Here are the photos

[professor95]

triplej wrote:
I have some pics of mine as well. I tried to post them, but can't figure out how to do it either. If someone will let me know, I will post them.

You need a photo hosting service. I personally use http://www.photobucket.com
It is free, but you do need to register. It is simple to upload images from your PC to this site. Once done, paste the url for your image into your message by clicking on the "image" icon in the editor you use to create your messages for this forum.

[55yroldkid]

Could somebody with the new WEN PowerPro 3500 with the switch to allow the full 3500 watts to the outlets post the schematic that came with it in the owners manual?

[AZDesertRat]

The Champion 3500w I bought at Thanksgiving time has one 120/240V twistlock and two 2 gang 120V outlets. Other than that it looks identical to that picture. Champion told me the lefthand side 120V outlets are 15A and the right side is 20A. Same goes for the twistlock, top bottom and left three wires are 15A and top bottom and right are 20A. The first time I wired the plug I was not aware of this and it would not start my AC unit. After swapping the two wires it runs the AC, microwave and lights at the same time and doesn't hardly flinch when the AC cycles on and off. Love the wheel kit and handle too!

[mrfixit454]

As for the wheel kits, if you could see how they are mounted on my ELIM Storm Series, it is pretty simple. 1/2" or 5/8" rod (from any hardware store) and some wheels from harbor freight or hardware store. They are just U-clamped to the frame (like muffler clamps). The rod has slots cut in it near each end for the u-clamps so the axle does not slide back and forth. Cotter pins hold the wheels on. Anyone handy should be able to tackle this.

[Hot_Rod_Cummins]

I bought some large casters and mounted them on 3/4 plywood for a rolling platform so it was easy to have no wheels and would still roll on fairly smooth surfaces

[Smokeman]

That post is easy to find, its too bad the pictures are too small to read the notes he added to them:(

professor95 wrote:

It is not compatable with the Maximizer as sold.

You should make a fairly simple internal wiring change to allow full wattage at 120 volts to a single outlet.


Since page numbers for back postings on this forum do not seem to be consistent, go to "Advanced Search" and select "Sonic1954" as the author and "Tech Issues" as the forum. Look for a posting from Sonic1954 on 11/02/05. You will find complete instructions with photos for the wiring conversion/change. Follow them, you will be pleased with the results.

[Smokeman]

Sure, that is the exact model I have. The receptacle you refer to is a 110 volt 30 amp twistlock. Next to that is a 110/220 twistlock.

jmramiller wrote:
This is the Champion C46535. Can anyone tell me what the plug next to the meter is? I heard these were supposed to be available this year with the rv style plug - can't tell if this is it or not. Check this website:
http://www.partsamerica.com/productdetail.aspx?mfrcode=CPE&mfrpartnumber=C46535

Price is $299.00

[Gilitar]

triplej wrote:
Here are some pics of the Wen Power Pro 3500 from pepboys. It started on first pull. It gets 25amps out of the normal 120 receptacles. It is not as load as contractor grade gens, but it is much loader than a Honda or Kipor. It cost $345.00 with tax. The Kipor I was looking at (Kipor 3000ti) was on ebay for $725.00 delivered. I couldn't see paying the extra for the little amount of camping I do with out electricity.

Does anyone know where one could get a wheel kit for the Wen Power Pro 3500?

[triplej]

Here are some pics of the Wen Power Pro 3500 from pepboys. It started on first pull. It gets 25amps out of the normal 120 receptacles. It is not as loud as contractor grade gens, but it is much louder than a Honda or Kipor. It cost $345.00 with tax. The Kipor I was looking at (Kipor 3000ti) was on ebay for $725.00 delivered. I couldn't see paying the extra for the little amount of camping I do with out electricity.

[jmramiller]

This is the Champion C46535. Can anyone tell me what the plug next to the meter is? I heard these were supposed to be available this year with the rv style plug - can't tell if this is it or not. Check this website:
http://www.partsamerica.com/productdetail.aspx?mfrcode=CPE&mfrpartnumber=C46535

Price is $299.00