3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[mrfixit454]

Well I received my Storm Series ELIM 3000 today via UPS. It received a little damage from Shipping from NY to CA. A few plastic items were broken and a small dent is on the front panel. I have not started the unit yet as I am supposed to contact UPS within 3 days of receipt. I have a note into ELIM to see if they can do anything first. I hate to ship this back and get another one in worse shape. The packaging is not all that great which is probably why they recommend picking up from their warehouse.

All in all is seems like a nice unit. The schematic in the manual does not seem to match the unit. The manual covers many units. I am a Mech. Egr. so this is my take at first glance. I need to send the schematic picture to Professor if he has time to look at it. I have taken pictures of the Gen. plus damage, plus a few pages in the manual. I'll keep you posted.
I never posted images. Hope these are not too big.

Mine is the DY3000LX. It has 120/240 with (1) duplex and (1) 4 pin twist lock. It appears the schematic they give is for 110 only or one voltage only?? Again.. Maybe and EE can help me here.

[boucher1]

professor95

Subject: LAUNTOP

I found more about this firm and it's distributors.

In Montreal Canada NORIKER EQUIPMENT INC. is distributor under the NORIKER brand name. They sell the LAUNTOP "Deluxe Gasoline Generator" group: LT2500CL, LT3000CL, LT3800CL, LT5000CL, LT6500CL.

Also at LAUNTOP www.launtop.com you will find the "Economic Petrol Generator" group: LT2500C, LT3000C, LT3800C, LT5000C, LT6500C. But here the specifications do not show the Noise Level (db at 7 meters(23 feet)).
Also interesting, the weight is different ie.:LT3000CL weights 43kg(95lbs) while LT3000C weights 37kg(82lbs). Is it possible the muffler is different and lighter and that maybe the noise level could be higher?
Buyers, beware of brand names.

When I spoke to the president of NORIKER over the phone, I asked: why when looking at both www.laundtop.com and www.noriker.ca site that the picture of "Economic Petrol Generator" group show the USA and Canadian electrical panel (60hz 120/240v) while the "Deluxe Gasoline Generator" group show the European electrical panel (50hz 240v)? The answer was: both series are modified for either the NA or European market.

Next Monday I'll be going to see a new shipment of generators that NORIKER have just received, I hope to see the LT3000CL in action.


Roger

Au revoir, à la prochaine.

[professor95]

I just revisited the Onan site on the HomeSite 2400 generator. A few things jumped out at me.

Onan says their engine is 5.1 HP at 3,600 rpm. They show the displacement as 196cc.

The Honda GX200 clones are also 196cc engines, but they are rated at 6.5 HP at 3,600 rpm. The GX160 clones (163 cc) are rated at 5.5 hp. I wonder why the Onan engine is only rated at 5.1 hp if it is really 196cc?

The weight and dimensions of the Onan 2400 are the same as my ELM3000.

The Onan is a 120 volt only unit delivering 2,000 watts continuous and 2,200 peak (but they call it a 2400). Other Chinese clones with the GX160 engine are "usually" rated 2400 peak and 2200 continuous.

They have included a Ground Fault Interrupter outlet on the generator (nice feature).

Onan has either misquoted the size of their engine (assuming it is a GX clone - and it looks like it is) or they are under rating one of the Chinese units bearing their name hoping to increase reliability and thus make it more likely that the 2 year warranty will work. (I lean more toward the first theory).

Like someone else noted a few posts back - the whole Chinese generator thing is like a soap opera. It is hard to tell who is in bed with whom!

I could not find a price on the Onan 2400 when I did a Google search. But, with the Onan name on the front, I bet is is considerably higher priced than other clones. Hopefully, someone will find the price and post it for comparative purposes.

[sandygirl]

I like the Aims brand 150 watt inverter. It has an intermittent capacity of 450 watts (three times the continous rating) which is good for starting up TVs and such, and has NO INTERNAL FAN which means it is quiet (and also that it may be more efficient and generates less heat than others). Check http://www.invertersrus.com/inverters.html, eBay, and other places.

I agree, for the price(around 20 dollars) you can't beat the little Aims inverter. Very efficient for running small loads everyone should have one to supplement a larger inverter. I use it to run my 27" TV, of course it won't start it so I go through a small relay and do a hot switchover. Saves over an amp or about 15% verses my larger inverter.

Sam

[feistycapn]

professor95 wrote:

Looks just like a Jiang Dong unit to me. I seriously doubt Onan would copy the Asian design and then build it in the USA. My take is that if Onan is going to put their name on one of the Chinese gensets they must be pretty sure of their reliability and performance. To do otherwise would be distructive to a company with their reputation. Anyone know what the listed price for the 2200 is?

Note the two year warrantee on the Onasn product PDF specs!

[professor95]

Just to muddy the waters a little more, here's a link to Onan's new HomeSite portable generators.

Looks just like a Jiang Dong unit to me. I seriously doubt Onan would copy the Asian design and then build it in the USA. My take is that if Onan is going to put their name on one of the Chinese gensets they must be pretty sure of their reliability and performance. To do otherwise would be destructive to a company with their reputation. Anyone know what the listed price for the 2200 is?

[MrWizard]

Skibane wrote:

professor95 wrote:

to me they look exactly the spikes produced by a diode going into 'avalanche mode'

That's one theory, and indeed may be the correct one. I have not seen a complete technical schematic for the generator head on any of these units nor have I decided to dissect mine for examination. Thus, I can also only present a "theory".

Link to the wiring diagram of the Yamaha EF-1600/2600 generator, which is very similar to these Chinese models.

Note that the diode(s) in the armature winding aren't shown as being Zeners, so 'forward conduction' is probably a more likely cause of the spikes than 'avalanche'.

by the way thanks for the drawing NOW if that picture of the armature with the diodes , i saw could just be found.

I've been out of electronics school since 1968, and out of " power distribution work " for about 20 years,

you'll forgive ? me if I've used the wrong phrase ..

[Skibane]

professor95 wrote:

to me they look exactly the spikes produced by a diode going into 'avalanche mode'

That's one theory, and indeed may be the correct one. I have not seen a complete technical schematic for the generator head on any of these units nor have I decided to dissect mine for examination. Thus, I can also only present a "theory".

Link to the wiring diagram of the Yamaha EF-1600/2600 generator, which is very similar to these Chinese models.

Note that the diode(s) in the armature winding aren't shown as being Zeners, so 'forward conduction' is probably a more likely cause of the spikes than 'avalanche'.

[Skibane]

Just to muddy the waters a little more, here's a link to Onan's new HomeSite portable generators.



Has a decidedly Asian-esque look, doesn't it?

No mention of where it's made on Onan's website.

[feistycapn]

Hawklovers and my Nikota both have this note in the manual. "Should an overload occur the breaker will trip to it's off position causing the generator to automatically shut down..... then reset the curcuit breaker.... and restart the generator" You will note that the schematic has no indication how this happens. My uneducated guess was that there is a second set of contacts on each CB that opens or closes when the breaker trips and kills the ignition.

However I looked at the photo in Hawklover's post and can not see a second set of contacts on the CBs.

Any other ideas how they kill the engine or if in fact they do kill the engine?

[feistycapn]

professor95 wrote:
I was in our local Costco (Richmond, VA) today. They had two of the Nikota 3500 generators in stock. Both were the "old" model like the ones previously sold by Pep Boys. They did NOT have the switch to route full wattage to one outlet at 120 volts. The duplex outlet was split and the maximum current available on each was 13 amps. If the person who purchases these generators wants to run a RV AC or other high current 120 volt device, they will be very disappointed.

If anyone intends to shop Costco for one of the newer Nikota Generators, please be sure you know what you are getting. Obviously, some of the "old stock" is out there too.

Three things:
1. There are several different "new" Nikotas at Costco
2. Adding neutral to the 240V plug.
3. Governor mechanism

1. There are (at least)two "new" versions of the Nikotas. The first is pictured by Hawklover in his post of 12/09/05 a few pages back. His engine is dated in June/05. I just purchased one at the Burlington VT Costco which is similar to his with the following differences. Engine is dated in Oct05 (fast transit!!). The Control panel is on the side of the frame on mine and not on the generator end cap. I have two switches (on/off and 120/240)instead of a 120/off/240. Mine has a volt meter and Hawklover's does not. My schematic is identical except for the addition of a voltmeter between the blue & brown leads off the generator. The 120 outlet is not split on either mine or Hawklover's.

In both cases there is a 13Amp CB in each 120v leg. Since they are in parallel when in 120v mode the combined output is limited to 26Amps. One concern I have is that should one breaker trip the other would continue to deliver output. However I assume that it would also quickly trip. I would prefer to have a duplex breaker that would take both sides down in the event one side tripped.

2. In both cases the 240 outlet has no neutral connection. Refer back to the schematic in Hawklover's append again. It looks to me that you could provide the neutral by adding a wire to one of the terminals on the 240v side of the voltage switch that are jumpered together by the brown wire. The other end of this wire would connect to the unused connection on the 240v plug. I have a situation (240V water pump with 120v controls) that fits with in the power budget and I'd like to know if this addition is both safe and workable.

3. I have studied the exceedingly small parts diagram to try to determine how the engine is governed. I saw some speculation earlier here that it was a fan and wind vane solution. It does not appear to be the case. There is a small geard riven by a gear on the crank shaft. Coaxial with the small gear shaft is a part labeled "slider[,] governor" and something called "Governor Assy" My educated guess is that the later is some form of a fly-ball or centrifical governor. I think this is a much more accurate mechanism than you'd get from the fan solution on lawn implements.

[professor95]

I was in our local Costco (Richmond, VA) today. They had two of the Nikota 3500 generators in stock. Both were the "old" model like the ones previously sold by Pep Boys. They did NOT have the switch to route full wattage to one outlet at 120 volts. The duplex outlet was split and the maximum current available on each was 13 amps. If the person who purchases these generators wants to run a RV AC or other high current 120 volt device, they will be very disappointed.

If anyone intends to shop Costco for one of the newer Nikota Generators, please be sure you know what you are getting. Obviously, some of the "old stock" is out there too.

[nigelstubblefie]

Hey Eric Lemmon. I bought a Champion 3500 and have not modded it yet, but would like to. Please post your mod. Thanks in advance.

[professor95]

Note - When using the 4 blade plug-in for your 3 blade RV connection, it is possible to pick the hot blade that may only be breakered with a 15A circuit breaker. If this is the case, you can identify it by visually seeing the R/H breaker popping out of the dash panel. It will cool and can be pushed in to reset. If this happens, you need to change the hot wire to the other unused terminal of the L14-30P plug. You will now be connected with a 20 amp breaker which is the L/H on of the pair next to the ignition switch.

There had to be some logic for doing this. At the moment, I cannot think of one. Now, if the duplex outlet had been a #5-15 rather than a #5-20, possibly I could see the logic.

OK, some of you smart Champion owners tell me why the difference exists when both output coils are equal?

[mrfixit454]

I believe that Champion says themselves on the Website FAQ's that they wire the unit w/ 2 different breakers (15 and 20).

Champion FAQ's (See RV 3 Blade Question)